SunriseChampion
Senior Member
Why has every leader in the province fucked up Hydro...
Legit question.
Is it that hard to run a generating and transmission system? I don't know, I work in construction.
Why has every leader in the province fucked up Hydro...
It worked fine until Harris decided 94 years of at-cost power from a not-for-profit crown corporation was somehow a terrible thing that needs to be dismantled. It was “common sense” right? :/
Why has every leader in the province fucked up Hydro...
It's a valid question. The cynic in me wants to say that a politician in power has never met a public service or revenue stream that they figure they can run better than anyone else - and usually wrong about it. More closer to reality, the whole concept of power-at-cost was probably easier to manage in the days when the primary source was hydraulic, and perhaps even thermal. The cost, debt and ROI were probably more manageable. But when they embarked on nuclear, the upfront costs and debt required to carry them went off the dial.
There is also the unfortunate backlash at nuclear energy as a result of Chernobyl (and lesser extent Fukushima) - the industry in Canada basically stopped developing Candu and it became bit of a technological orphan (no economies of scale - prices remain high). If there is one public policy shortfall, it is the complete failure of the Feds on this file to instill nuclear power across the country where Hydro isn't readily availabile.
As to Quebec - my understanding is that they are more interested in selling to the US than Ontario (maybe with a sovereignty subtext?)
AoD
I'm not such a big fan of nuclear; but not for reasons associated with a meltdown; the risk of something like that, w/Candu design is not non-existant, but fortunately quite low.
That said, my concerns would be the cost of construction and finance when layered into the lifecycle cost of operation doesn't actually produce particularly cheap electricity.
Looking at Darlington, we'll be lucky to get total costs under 9c per KWH with an all-in calculation........
Worse though is we don't have an permanent site for holding nuclear waste; and even if we did; no one has factored in the real cost of maintaining that waste for the next 10,000 years and change (which may include the need to re container such as waste.
In Ontario, permanent disposal issues aside, we have had multiple leaks of tritium-laced water; no small concern.
In fact a broader look at Pickering's Safety record should raise some real concerns.
Pickering Nuclear: Unsafe at any speed - Ontario Clean Air Alliance
The Pickering Nuclear Station has a long history of operational problems, accidents and poor performance. […]www.cleanairalliance.org
Ultimately I'm not persuaded by the economic arguments for nuclear fission power, irrespective of safety; but when layering legitimate safety concerns on top, I no longer consider nuclear worthy of consideration as a power source at this time.
Perhaps with fusion; or with thorium reactors; but not with today's tech.
Quebec made an explicit offer to Ontaro to substantially ramp up interprovincial transfers; to my understanding, the price was very competitive and cheaper on a per KwH basis than the Darlington's refurb.
It was our side (Ontario) that spiked the idea.
I'm not such a big fan of nuclear; but not for reasons associated with a meltdown; the risk of something like that, w/Candu design is not non-existant, but fortunately quite low.
That said, my concerns would be the cost of construction and finance when layered into the lifecycle cost of operation doesn't actually produce particularly cheap electricity.
Looking at Darlington, we'll be lucky to get total costs under 9c per KWH with an all-in calculation........
Worse though is we don't have an permanent site for holding nuclear waste; and even if we did; no one has factored in the real cost of maintaining that waste for the next 10,000 years and change (which may include the need to re container such as waste.
In Ontario, permanent disposal issues aside, we have had multiple leaks of tritium-laced water; no small concern.
In fact a broader look at Pickering's Safety record should raise some real concerns.
Pickering Nuclear: Unsafe at any speed - Ontario Clean Air Alliance
The Pickering Nuclear Station has a long history of operational problems, accidents and poor performance. […]www.cleanairalliance.org
Ultimately I'm not persuaded by the economic arguments for nuclear fission power, irrespective of safety; but when layering legitimate safety concerns on top, I no longer consider nuclear worthy of consideration as a power source at this time.
Perhaps with fusion; or with thorium reactors; but not with today's tech.
Quebec made an explicit offer to Ontaro to substantially ramp up interprovincial transfers; to my understanding, the price was very competitive and cheaper on a per KwH basis than the Darlington's refurb.
It was our side (Ontario) that spiked the idea.
We really should return to nuclear as a large source of power, at least in the interim. There are much safer designs available (salt-cooled reactor cores for instance) that are nearly impossible to melt down. We should also look at SMR (Small/Medium Reactors) in/closer to urban areas, which would cut transmission loss, be overall safer, have a cheaper and faster upfront setup, and be more environmentally friendly with a coolant system that doesn't need to be dumped into local waterways.I think so - power generation and transmission is extremely capital intensive with long lead time (especially in Ontario, where a good chunk of the load is handled by nuclear) while demand can vary (and dip during the bad times). This create an incentive/pressure for politicians to act on the basis of short term interests - and then play catch up when demand inevitably rises - with the tendency to overcompensate.
There is also the unfortunate backlash at nuclear energy as a result of Chernobyl (and lesser extent Fukushima) - the industry in Canada basically stopped developing Candu and it became bit of a technological orphan (no economies of scale - prices remain high). If there is one public policy shortfall, it is the complete failure of the Feds on this file to instill nuclear power across the country where Hydro isn't readily availabile.
We really should return to nuclear as a large source of power, at least in the interim. There are much safer designs available (salt-cooled reactor cores for instance) that are nearly impossible to melt down. We should also look at SMR (Small/Medium Reactors) in/closer to urban areas, which would cut transmission loss, be overall safer, have a cheaper and faster upfront setup, and be more environmentally friendly with a coolant system that doesn't need to be dumped into local waterways.
Please explain why Ontario spiked the idea, in your opinion.
You people are just goading me into a comment so I can be threatened to be banned - no thanks.Where's Burloaks's predictable rebuttal?
You people are just goading me into a comment so I can be threatened to be banned - no thanks.
"Nothing" is better than a repeat of "this is why Doug Ford is the best premier ever in the history of Canada!", followed by cherry-picked metrics that have little actual relation to anything Ford's actually done..In other words, you've got nothing.
You people