Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

Toronto's Yonge St North Planning StudyDocument

Read the first 12 pages of the document to see how Yonge between Cummer and Steeles could come to accommodate thousands of new residents and workers. Over 20,000 people and 8000 jobs with the extension of the subway.

The Vaughan plan calls for 10,000 people and 5000 jobs between Steeles and Centre Street.

Markham has similar population projections (9700) with an additional 3600 jobs. Document

Add in Langstaff Gateway and Richmond Hill Centre and you could add another 75,000 people and jobs to this area. "Scribed"

I believe the development potential (and demand) is greatest for this extension of all possible subway extensions.
Maybe I am misunderstanding our goals for accommodating the continuous growth in our population but extending the existing Yonge line, reclaiming the land from strip malls and auto dealerships seems like a no brainer.

All four municipalities have done the planning around this extension. Show me near the potential (or demand) anywhere along the sheppard line.
 
A 3 page discussion on why York region residents should be able to ride the TTC for free while Toronto residents need to pay a fare.

I think the better question is if the York region residents are so concerned about paying two fares, why aren't they asking to ride the YRT for free and instead pay just the TTC? I guess it's always easier to free ride off other people.
 
UD2 said:
A 3 page discussion on why York region residents should be able to ride the TTC for free while Toronto residents need to pay a fare.

I think the better question is if the York region residents are so concerned about paying two fares, why aren't they asking to ride the YRT for free and instead pay just the TTC? I guess it's always easier to free ride off other people.
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Dear lord, what a straw man. Nobody said for free. Not one person And certainly nobody - that's less than zero people - said, "TTC for free." That's all you reading in.

We were talking about fare INTEGRATION and so is Metrolinx and so is every other major city on earth, most of which probably all have it already in some form. I'm not going to write an extensive rant - just feel free to go read Metrolinx's main page to understand what the entire point of having a regional transit agency is. If you can't understand, per the previous pages, how the current structure obstructs and distorts transit use and discourages ridership, I can't help you.

For one thing, to respond to your "question", the current structure allows TTC to "steal" fares that should go to YRT. What we want is riders being able to get on a bus and get where they're going. Not walk an extra 20 minutes or take a car because it will cost them $2.80 to go from Finch to Union but another $3.70 to get from Highway 7 to Finch. We also want to have a single medium for payment (and nearly do, thankfully, finally) so people don't have to keep YRT tickets in one pocket and fish out their tokens (keeping them separate from the dimes!) in the other. Because it's not 1920 anymore.

That this needs fixing is not even debatable; the only question is how to do it fairly. And again, that is being developed as we speak. I doubt one of the suggestions, from here or elsewhere, would be "Pay for one transit system, ride the next one for free."

Jaycola lays out all the density issues pretty clearly too. There is FAR more intensification potential along Yonge, from Finch to Highway 7, than along either the Sheppard line or Scarborough. Probably more than both combined. It's somewhere between tragic and comic that some people think - quite sincerely - this is precisely why we can't build the line. It's like running WalMart, seeing where the busy highways are, and deciding the best place to expand is the remote fields far away from them. But that's not how the private sector works and there's a rather easy lesson to be learned from how their entire raison d'etre is serving customers and making things convenient.

I understand our system (especially TTC) is cash-strapped and hanging on by the seat of its pants in some respects but when people oppose the most obvious measures that would make our transit easier to use, serve existing and potential ridership growth etc., it makes me wonder how many people (not just here but politicians too) understand what the point of PUBLIC TRANSIT is even supposed to be. Riders (CUSTOMERS!) don't care what colour the bus is; they just want to get where they're going as quickly, seamlessly and easily as possible. The more barriers you throw up - as if this is some ap where the goal is defending your territory - the more you discourage ridership, forcing some people into cars and making life very difficult for those who have no choice there.

jaycola said:
All four municipalities have done the planning around this extension. Show me near the potential (or demand) anywhere along the sheppard line.
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Forget about the demand or potential; go back to the first sentence and show me someone has done the PLANNING out in Scarborough equivalent to what's been done for Yonge. [shakes head]
 
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This is also, obviously, very relevant for the DRL thread but it's a reminder that Metrolinx has not forgotten about this project.

New report on their regional relief strategy (of which the DRL is a big part) which recommends the Yonge north extension be taken up to a 15% design level and that there's a substantive report on it back by next Spring.

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/board_agenda/20150625/2015-06-25_Yonge_Relief_Network_Study.pdf

A few notes:

* By 2021 (ie before an extension could possibly open), the Yonge line capacity is expected to climb from 28K to 36K ppl per hour; an increase of nearly 30% and nothing to sneeze at.
* RER is expected to relieve even more BUT even adding enhanced RER on the RH line will attract only minimal ridership from the subway because, as some of us have pointed out repeatedly, there is minimal overlap in the two services.
* From Slide 20, directed at many on this very board:
• The Yonge North Subway Extension would increase demand on the Yonge Subway
•With the Yonge North Extension, the Yonge Subway will still be under capacity

(my bolding there)

Also noteworthy - they like the DRL going all the way up to Sheppard (more relief!) and while planning should keep moving forward, it's NOT needed immediately. Interesting...
Overall, it's nice to see someone looking at the big picture.
 
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key to note that it will be under capacity due to the new RER improvements, previous studys had indicated that it would be over capacity without some additional form of relief. That relief has now come in the form of RER.
 
innsertnamehere said:
key to note that it will be under capacity due to the new RER improvements, previous studys had indicated that it would be over capacity without some additional form of relief. That relief has now come in the form of RER.
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True. There's still the paradox that while RER will provide relief to the subway, RER on the Richmond Hill line won't. That's the opposite of what many here have said but it totally makes sense.

Either way, it's the first substantive news in a while and it will be interesting to see what TTC makes of the idea that thanks to RER (and, effectively, Smart Track), it's not necessary to wait for the DRL to build this extension.
 
It is interesting that the "Yonge Relief" study seems to conclude that a new line to relieve Yonge is not actually necessary in the near future. This contradicts what the TTC has been saying for years; that the DRL was required before the Yonge Extension.

I would bet good money that there will soon be a renewed push to get the Yonge Extension started, particularly now that the Minister of Transportation is (once again) the member from Vaughan. I would not be surprised to see Metrolinx fund it 100% either.
 
DarnDirtyApe said:
It is interesting that the "Yonge Relief" study seems to conclude that a new line to relieve Yonge is not actually necessary in the near future. This contradicts what the TTC has been saying for years; that the DRL was required before the Yonge Extension.
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It doesn`t contradict anything. This study assumes that GO RER is built, and has provided some relief (4200PPH, see slide#20). I`m sure that the previous TTC studies did not assume a GO RER Network up and running.

The study also says that, while the Yonge Line will be "under capacity", 96% of capacity will be used by 2021, whereas the 2015 base case has the line at 111% of capacity. So you likely could have Yonge North proceed ahead of a DRL, but you would probably start to see capacity issues very soon after.
 
DarnDirtyApe said:
It is interesting that the "Yonge Relief" study seems to conclude that a new line to relieve Yonge is not actually necessary in the near future. This contradicts what the TTC has been saying for years; that the DRL was required before the Yonge Extension.

I would bet good money that there will soon be a renewed push to get the Yonge Extension started, particularly now that the Minister of Transportation is (once again) the member from Vaughan. I would not be surprised to see Metrolinx fund it 100% either.
Click to expand...

This is due to the new GO RER improvements so no the TTC wasn't wrong. The RER is a concept which has come up within the last year.
 
I never said that the TTC was wrong, just that the study seems to indicate that their concerns about capacity on Yonge are no longer applicable. In other words the TTC has no excuse not to go along with the Yonge North extension if the funding is provided by York/Metrolinx.
 
In that ppt there is also "3. Direct staff to work in consultation with York Region, City of Toronto and the TTC to advance the project development of the Yonge North Subway Extension to 15% preliminary design and engineering;"

Does it mean the entire project gets green light to 15% progress? (or 15% of the design and engineering part..which could merely mean nothing lol)

For John Tory's 8 billion price tag of Smart Track, I'd rather see it goes to the DRL-Long (to Don Mills/shapperd) option
 
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