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York Region Transit: Viva service thread

I'm not familiar with VIVA but instead of these messages why don't they tell you what the connecting routes that you can get at the upcoming stops. I've been to other cities where in the buses they have displays where you can see the connecting routes for upcoming stops and what time the connecting buses will arrive. We are so far behind in the GTA.
 
Adjei said:
I'm not familiar with VIVA but instead of these messages why don't they tell you what the connecting routes that you can get at the upcoming stops. I've been to other cities where in the buses they have displays where you can see the connecting routes for upcoming stops and what time the connecting buses will arrive. We are so far behind in the GTA.
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I haven't been on the Viva in a while but I can tell you that they've been doing this for years already at terminals like Richmond Hill Centre, Promenade, Finch, and York University.
 
Adjei said:
Is it done on the bus?
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Yes, something like: "Next stop, Richmond Hill Centre. Transfer here for connections to Viva Purple, Viva Pink, and YRT". Part of the automated stop announcement. I guess they've just added on a bunch of safety warnings in addition to it for some reason.
 
I remember sending them an email with this concern a few months back and they claim it is part of addressing the AODA regs which is obviously BS. If that was the case
the rest of the GTA systems would have that. I think that it is another case of YRT trying to do too much to appease the crowd and overkilling it. Though eventually it would somewhat be white noise,
the fact that they assume that we would lack (to be fair there are "outliers") the common sense to sit or hold on to something while the bus is moving to the point they have to spoon feed us propaganda just
shows how out of touch they are with their customer base
 
I once spoke to a Markham councillor who said it had literally been years since there was any conversation at all with the councillor in the adjacent North York ward. It was kind of surprising and the TTC is kind of its own crazy bubble anyway.
It's definitely disturbing and I think if people understood the degree to which Toronto is run by people wearing blinders the need for Metrolinx to take the lead on Presto, fare integration etc would be clearer. The only way to get 416 to acknowledge the larger world is to hold their feet to the fire, like when they were threatened by losing capital funding if they didn't sign on to Presto.

It's a sad state of affairs.
 
Yeah, but they can't just sit back and say "years ago we asked them about it and they said no so we haven't talked to them since". That's just a lame excuse. Councillors change, times change, and so I would expect to see at least a few attempts to open a discussion about it per political term. Toronto can't just pretend that the GTA doesn't exist anymore. People commute to Markham now just as much as people commute from Markham, and I'm sure their own residents have the same complaints about the double fare as people in Markham do too. The only difference is that they probably think it's the YRT that's to blame.
 
xtremesniper said:
Yeah, but they can't just sit back and say "years ago we asked them about it and they said no so we haven't talked to them since". That's just a lame excuse. Councillors change, times change, and so I would expect to see at least a few attempts to open a discussion about it per political term. Toronto can't just pretend that the GTA doesn't exist anymore. People commute to Markham now just as much as people commute from Markham, and I'm sure their own residents have the same complaints about the double fare as people in Markham do too. The only difference is that they probably think it's the YRT that's to blame.
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Oh, I agree. I'm just saying whether you blame Toronto or not (and I kinda do, admittedly), it's amazing just generally how little municipalities talk with each other. There needs to be a forum of some sort where regional issues are addressed. That could spin off into a whole discussion of regional governance but certainly there are residents in Thornhill and Willowdale or Milliken and Scarborough who have much in common; and yet the system continues to operate in obsolete silos. It's nice to see Markham moving on these issues because I'm pretty sure Toronto never would have taken the lead.

Toronto is the biggest municipality by far, of course - and thus the biggest silo - so it would be nice if bit by bit they're reminded to get their heads out of their buts and think of all riders as customers, all drivers as potential customers etc.
 
xtremesniper said:
Thanks. Some of the councillors seem to be thinking right, but the comment that "talking to Toronto is like talking to another country" is a little disturbing. I wonder if they've even tried to re-open talks about fare integration since John Tory became mayor?
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That may be the situation politically - and to be honest, it probably is - but at an agency level, it's bullshit.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
Just over a week ago, Viva service was introduced on Davis Drive in Newmarket. At first I thought they will simply extend the Viva Blue route, but instead they created a completely separate line called Viva Yellow to service this short 7-stop route, even though the headways are the same as Viva Blue (every 15 minutes).
Screen shot 2015-12-07 at 10.24.15 PM.png







Furthermore, a lot of YRT routes run parallel to Viva Yellow, which steals some of the riders that Viva Yellow was supposed to attract. Highway 7 doesn't have this much duplication of service. When I was walking on Davis, I saw many more YRT buses than Viva buses, and all of them had a lot more passengers. And yet those YRT buses have to get stuck in traffic while empty Viva buses get to have their own dedicated lane.

Screen shot 2015-12-07 at 5.25.32 PM.png





By the way, I'm not exaggerating when say the buses are running empty. I rode it in both directions, and I saw only 3 other passengers get on the bus. And this was at 4:45 pm on a Monday afternoon.

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I know that this is a brand new service, but so far I don't think it will be very successful until some major changes are made.
  • Viva Blue should take over this route. Lets have a seamless link between Newmarket and everything on Yonge St, instead of a stubby 7-stop route with an annoying transfer at Eagle Street. Both times it took me about 12 minutes to transfer between Blue and Yellow.
  • Remove some of the YRT routes from Davis Dr. For example, 50 and 55 could terminate at 404 town centre.
  • There are two major bus terminals on Davis Dr, both of which are separated from Newmarket GO station. With GO RER coming in the future, perhaps it's time to reconsider whether it makes sense to maintain this configuration.
 

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salsa said:
Just over a week ago, Viva service was introduced on Davis Drive in Newmarket. At first I thought they will simply extend the Viva Blue route, but instead they created a completely separate line called Viva Yellow to service this short 7-stop route, even though the headways are the same as Viva Blue (every 15 minutes).View attachment 61328






Furthermore, a lot of YRT routes run parallel to Viva Yellow, which steals some of the riders that Viva Yellow was supposed to attract. Highway 7 doesn't have this much duplication of service. When I was walking on Davis, I saw many more YRT buses than Viva buses, and all of them had a lot more passengers. And yet those YRT buses have to get stuck in traffic while empty Viva buses get to have their own dedicated lane.





By the way, I'm not exaggerating when say the buses are running empty. I rode it in both directions, and I saw only 3 other passengers get on the bus. And this was at 4:45 pm on a Monday afternoon.






I know that this is a brand new service, but so far I don't think it will be very successful until some major changes are made.
  • Viva Blue should take over this route. Lets have a seamless link between Newmarket and everything on Yonge St, instead of a stubby 7-stop route with an annoying transfer at Eagle Street. Both times it took me about 12 minutes to transfer between Blue and Yellow.
  • Remove some of the YRT routes from Davis Dr. For example, 50 and 55 could terminate at 404 town centre.
  • There are two major bus terminals on Davis Dr, both of which are separated from Newmarket GO station. With GO RER coming in the future, perhaps it's time to reconsider whether it makes sense to maintain this configuration.
Click to expand...

That kind of stuff happens. YRT's transit planning tends to focus on destinations rather grid patterns. The routes all run to Newmarket terminal because most transfers would happen there (be it transfer to VIVA Blue, or other routes), thus some duplication of service. They could run the routes in a more regular grid pattern and depend on transfers to VIVA Yellow to get passengers to Newmarket terminal and VIVA blue however that would a: induce an additional transfer and b: remove a natural terminal point for many routes that would otherwise need a loop facility somewhere (in the middle of nowhere)

Not saying either way is right or wrong, just that's the decision making that goes into it.
 
Route 50 is the former GO Transit Keswick/Sutton bus route; presumably the connection is maintained to the Newmarket Terminal to minimize the transfers to/from the GO Trains at Newmarket Station and the GO buses at the terminal. Davis Drive does look like a mess, though, a full re-organization of the Aurora/Newmarket routes is probably necessary.
 
salsa said:
I know that this is a brand new service, but so far I don't think it will be very successful until some major changes are made.
  • Viva Blue should take over this route. Lets have a seamless link between Newmarket and everything on Yonge St, instead of a stubby 7-stop route with an annoying transfer at Eagle Street. Both times it took me about 12 minutes to transfer between Blue and Yellow.
  • Remove some of the YRT routes from Davis Dr. For example, 50 and 55 could terminate at 404 town centre.
  • There are two major bus terminals on Davis Dr, both of which are separated from Newmarket GO station. With GO RER coming in the future, perhaps it's time to reconsider whether it makes sense to maintain this configuration.
Click to expand...

What makes you think that the predominant travel pattern is across Davis and then down Yonge? That certainly doesn't seem to be the case in all of the times I'm up there. And not only that, but Blue is horribly variable/unreliable because of how long the route is. The service along Davis Dr. would be even worse because they'd only be scheduling every, say third bus - and so the headways would be even more erratic.

The YRT routes haven't yet been realigned and revamped to take into account the new VIVA route yet. That happens in January. Give them some time.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
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