TTC: Next Bus/Streetcar Arrival System

[EnviroTO]

Unfortunately the time of arrival going up is probably accurate based on the parameters that can be measured... if a car is blocking the progress of the streetcar, there is an accident, or the driver has run into a store it is true that the estimated time of arrival would be going up. That is really the problem with this system on our existing network with congestion, cars blocking vehicles, delivery trucks and emergency vehicles getting in the way, etc, there is no real way to predict accurately the arrival time. The best they can do is provide that inaccurate estimate which if it is not counting down smoothly indicates congestion or delay so you can plan accordingly. You can be sure the vehicle will not arrive before then time stated but not be sure it won't arrive later.

 

[wyliepoon]

I think a nice alternative to a "time based" electronic signage at streetcar stops would be a series of traffic cameras placed along the length of a streetcar route (such as Queen Street).

At every streetcar stop install a TV screen that shows the view from the camera just up the route. This would give people a real sense of when the streetcar is going to come, and if there is a delay, what kind of delay it is. It could also end the practice of impatient passengers stepping out into the street trying to see the next streetcar coming.

These cameras could also be linked to the TTC's websites and others (much like highway traffic cameras are linked to The Weather Network's site) so that people can visually see how good the streetcars are moving on their route before heading out (or they could check out the cameras on their mobile devices while at the stop).

 

[Jonny5]

Unfortunately the time of arrival going up is probably accurate based on the parameters that can be measured... if a car is blocking the progress of the streetcar, there is an accident, or the driver has run into a store it is true that the estimated time of arrival would be going up. That is really the problem with this system on our existing network with congestion, cars blocking vehicles, delivery trucks and emergency vehicles getting in the way, etc, there is no real way to predict accurately the arrival time. The best they can do is provide that inaccurate estimate which if it is not counting down smoothly indicates congestion or delay so you can plan accordingly. You can be sure the vehicle will not arrive before then time stated but not be sure it won't arrive later.

I can see what you mentioned as a problem in some places, but not at the end of the 509/510 route. Cars blocking the tracks along Queen's Quay is extremely rare and I've never seen a 509/510 operator anywhere hop out for a coffee. They certainly aren't stopping in the tunnel. The crowds and travel times should be fairly predictable. There will be surge loads that throw things off now an then, but not enough to explain why the system can pretty much never accurately predict the arrival time of a car until it leaves the Ferry Docks station. Even late at night the times fluctuate too much.

I'm beginning to suspect that, like the transit priority system and the city's much self-vaunted traffic light technology, this system is antiquated and uses very simple algorithms that can't adapt to the route.

 

[mgl]

What happened to the web app getting more routes on it? I remember trying out the online app with the 506 streetcar when Steve Munro posted that it was in testing. But now there are only two routes on nextbus' site. Anybody know what's up?

 

[RedRocket191]

What happened to the web app getting more routes on it? I remember trying out the online app with the 506 streetcar when Steve Munro posted that it was in testing. But now there are only two routes on nextbus' site. Anybody know what's up?

Two things:

1) Streetcars on the 509/510 routes were the only ones that were being tracked. The other routes were just estimates based on the schedules and were not necessarily accurate.

2) The site was supposed to be secret. When people found out about it they took half of it down. Curiosity killed the cat, so to speak.

 

[nfitz]

Two things:

1) Streetcars on the 509/510 routes were the only ones that were being tracked. The other routes were just estimates based on the schedules and were not necessarily accurate.

We've discussed this before, but this is not true, and keeps getting repeated. For the few hours that the NextBus was active for the other streetcar routes, you could see that it was real data, and not schedules. Cars were clustered, and gaps were present. I literally sat for a few minutes with the schedule and watched what was going past the window. It was accurate, gaps and clustered cars included - at least for part of the morning. And that was documented here.

Though this is ancient history. Why at this stage hasn't it been extended to the rest of the streetcars? TTC reports indicate that all the vehicles were equipped weeks ago, and that they are using the technology to track the 501 cars as part of the studies on that line. What's stopping making it available to the rest of us, except red tape?

 

[wyliepoon]

Seen at Dundas/Spadina today...

 

[nfitz]

Good grief ... is that what we are getting. You can read the advertisement from half-a-block away, but you'll have to walk into the shelter to see when the next bus is coming??

 

[W. K. Lis]

Good grief ... is that what we are getting. You can read the advertisement from half-a-block away, but you'll have to walk into the shelter to see when the next bus is coming??

Is you can see the bus or streetcar coming, then why to you have to go inside the shelter to check.

 

[EnviroTO]

Good grief ... is that what we are getting. You can read the advertisement from half-a-block away, but you'll have to walk into the shelter to see when the next bus is coming??

Why would you need to see the display from far away? If you can see the streetcar then you need to run, otherwise you will arrive at the transit shelter and have no problem looking at the display. If you aren't at the shelter then you aren't really waiting for the vehicle and can go online and see where the busses and streetcars are on a map.

 

[taal]

Good grief ... is that what we are getting. You can read the advertisement from half-a-block away, but you'll have to walk into the shelter to see when the next bus is coming??

Please ... show me one alternative anywhere else in the World that you'd you prefer.

 

[Voltz]

The display would be slightly more visible both inside and in front of the shelter if it was located on the end, above the advertisement, where it is now even someone standing inside the shelter at the far end would have some trouble viewing it.

 

[CDL.TO]

That seems pretty standard and basically the same setup as any other world city that I have been in.

I'm very excited. Nothing would make me happier than seeing the TTC somehow pull a countdown-crossing-signals and quickly install these all over the city.

The display would be slightly more visible both inside and in front of the shelter if it was located on the end, above the advertisement, where it is now even someone standing inside the shelter at the far end would have some trouble viewing it.

Okay, that's a pretty valid criticism.

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The simplest system I've come across was in Salzburg, where each route number was printed on the bus stop, and a simple little display to show how many minutes to the next departure.

Photo of Salzburg bus stop
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[nfitz]

Is you can see the bus or streetcar coming, then why to you have to go inside the shelter to check.

As they are only viewable from inside the shelter, there are situations where you would have to walk back to the stop and see if one is coming ... and when sees that the next streetcar is not coming for 20 minutes, then you turn around and retrace your steps walking towards a different route.

Minor inconvenience, but should the advertisement be more visible than the information?

Thought the subway stations are no better. The Next Train information is barely visible a short distance down the platform - I've never seen Next Train information on any other system that is only viewable for such short distances.

 

[bar1967]

As they are only viewable from inside the shelter, there are situations where you would have to walk back to the stop and see if one is coming ... and when sees that the next streetcar is not coming for 20 minutes, then you turn around and retrace your steps walking towards a different route.

Minor inconvenience, but should the advertisement be more visible than the information?

Thought the subway stations are no better. The Next Train information is barely visible a short distance down the platform - I've never seen Next Train information on any other system that is only viewable for such short distances.

why can't you do a quick walk behind the shelter and look through the glass to view the next arrival time? You don't have to go in the shelter. Maybe there will be an exterior one as well.