drum118
Superstar
We could see 4435 in service come May 4, 4436 May 18 and 4437 between May 28 to June 3rd, with BBC shipping 3 for May as schedule.
|
|
|
nfitz
Superstar
Attachments
crs1026
Senior Member
I have lost track... where in the world is 4401? With Bombardier finally achieving its ramp up, would this not be a good time to bring it up to production spec and put it on the road? Or is it already a museum candidate?
- Paul
- Paul
Andy T
Active Member
15 flexities are out on 504 right now.
dowlingm
Senior Member
So we should leave the option price expire, the production line be terminated in favour of trusting the city council of the 2020s to make the call to build a smaller order of new cars which Bombardier or not will have a different supply chain and a price per unit significantly above the contract option price? I can't imagine who, apart maybe from people who would like to see a follow on order to be double ended, 20m long and powered by batteries made of unicorns, would trust this to end up with a better streetcar network.
White Pine
Active Member
What's that, Doctor Who?
nfitz
Superstar
Leslie Barns - see below.
Not sure they've quite achieved it yet. The second production line is only just getting going. I doubt they want the distraction. I wouldn't be surprised if it's here a while yet. With the Metrolinx/Bombardier impasse, perhaps they'll ship it to Lennox, to be completed after the Waterloo order.
Attachments
Last edited:
Andy T
Active Member
Because of the sheer amount of flexities running on 504 today, they had to position a supervisor with a walkie talkie in communication with transit control on the platform at Broadview to get all the CLRVs moving to prevent the flexities being stuck on Broadview. They already had to sent 5 cars back to Leslie because the platforms couldn't cope with all the extras.
Allandale25
Senior Member
Steve X
Senior Member
Rumors say 4401 won't go back anytime soon. Like 4402, it can't be simply placed in the assembly line which causes delivery delays.
drum118
Superstar
I see you don't understand business and Toronto Council.
You don't throw good money at poor business who fail to preform as per contract while not knowing what the final cost will be until the contract is completed to see what it going to cost you going with the option.
Since TTC wouldn't see car #60 4461 until the fall this year that will be 2 years behind schedule, TTC has no funds in its current budget to order the option. June will see the first round of budget setting for 2018 get under way and given the fact council wants TTC to cut funding for 2018, funds will most likely not requested for the option for 2018. Council will most likely will tell TTC at budget time that until the contract is fulfill and all extra back charge cost are known, it will only then look at extra funds for the option then.
Since TTC has an white elephant to be built, the mayor will make sure there is funds to build it with others TTC projects will be taking a back seat including the the option for more cars to help pay for it.
Since the last car is due late 2019, only then will TTC know what the final back charge will be and what the final cost for the option be base on the deduction of the back charge, assuming BBD/Siemens accept the back charges.
I am sure if you are having reno done to your home you would bulk at any extra cost the contractor wants to finish the work. This could delay the work even if it written in the contract and if you don't pay the extra cost up front.
The earliest that TTC could go to council to ask for the funds for the option is 2020 without being told that TTC would not have scale back on other project before then to get that money.
The option will be for the same car being built unless some major changes take place for the system in the coming year and that will not be known until 2018.
Council has a bad track record for ordering the new fleet and it goes back to the late 90's. Even in 2005 they scale back the fleet since the bean counter said it should be and not do the 1:1 that should happen from day one do deal with growth and pend-up demand for more room and service.
Any contract for the option will most likely be a lot stronger written as well having a higher penalty clause in it that should have been there from day one.
BBD/Siemens will not scrap the assembly line once the last car rolls off the line knowing there could be more cars to be built.
If TTC ran like a company should be, BBD would not be building these cars today and looking at a nice lawsuit to cover the cost that TTC may have to pay extra to get the current fleet. They should gone out last years for bids on the option.
To do everything that TTC needs to do, it needs at least an extra $5 billion and where is that going to come from??
Steve X
Senior Member
I don't see TTC buying from anyone else except BBD. It will cost TTC more for another company to redesigned the ramp that took forever to get right, test a new LRV on the network, retrain everyone and possibly find out they might have to throw millions to do mods again. Yes, there's a lot of BBD hate around but saying screw it, let's get another supplier doesn't help financially. Another model will result in more teething issues.
BBD probably had under bid on this contract too. If TTC can get the same price for 60 more cars, why would they spend more to get a different model? Unfortunately that's not how John Tory's finance works. TTC will spend significantly more on new cars if they don't get it as an option. That would also mean TTC won't get more cars till at least mid or late 2020s. The streetcar system will be packed again waiting for relief. By then, the first cars would be in their first overhaul.
BBD probably had under bid on this contract too. If TTC can get the same price for 60 more cars, why would they spend more to get a different model? Unfortunately that's not how John Tory's finance works. TTC will spend significantly more on new cars if they don't get it as an option. That would also mean TTC won't get more cars till at least mid or late 2020s. The streetcar system will be packed again waiting for relief. By then, the first cars would be in their first overhaul.
JJ's Trackside Rambles
New Member
Flexity TTC 4435 its on its way. Here is 4435 this afternoon, Sunday, April 23rd, 2017 sitting in CP's "E" yard in downtown Thunder Bay. It is waiting for furtherance to Toronto on Train 420. It was spotted behind a string of propane tank cars but my CRO contact managed to get this photo of the Flexity peeking out from behind the tank cars. Bryan Martyniuk photo with permission
Attachments
Johnny Au
Senior Member
I knew it.
The Daleks have exterminated dissident Bombardier employees and forced them to manufacture Flexities at glacially slow paces.
robmausser
Senior Member
It appears that there are all Flexities on 514 Cherry route today.
https://www.nextbus.com/googleMap/?a=ttc&r=514
This is the first time i've seen this.
So 510, 509 and 514 are all Flexities making it 3 routes in Toronto that are 100% new streetcars.
https://www.nextbus.com/googleMap/?a=ttc&r=514
This is the first time i've seen this.
So 510, 509 and 514 are all Flexities making it 3 routes in Toronto that are 100% new streetcars.