TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[TheTigerMaster]

I assume they're using a spring loaded mechanism just like the trolley poles. Meaning that the pressure of the overhead wire will push the panto lower.

 

[rbt]

It's situations like this that make it look ridiculous to worry about the height of the Union Station trainshed, and whether or not it will support electrification.

Pantograph operation is going to work through this tunnel, and that is much less clearance than we see at Union.

Metrolinx stated Union may not be tall enough for catenary; probably true and the press jumped on it to create controversy. It's clearly tall enough for overhead fixed rail with pantographs which is the exact same everybody else, including the TTC, does in areas with low clearance as exampled in this picture, Queen's Quay tunnel, inside maintenance facilities, and the under construction Eglinton LRT.

 

[smallspy]

It's situations like this that make it look ridiculous to worry about the height of the Union Station trainshed, and whether or not it will support electrification.

Pantograph operation is going to work through this tunnel, and that is much less clearance than we see at Union.

In fairness, we're dealing with "only" 600Vdc here, rather than the 25kVac system proposed for Union Station. The required clearances around the electrified wire is several times less on the streetcar network than with the potential mainline system.

But yes, it is a pretty good example of what can be done with pantographs.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[rbt]

In fairness, we're dealing with "only" 600Vdc here, rather than the 25kVac system proposed for Union Station. The required clearances around the electrified wire is several times less on the streetcar network than with the potential mainline system.

It's been a long time but I think the additional clearance is something around 90mm IF nothing else changes.

That clearance increase can be reduced to almost nothing by insulating the structure near the exposed line; the thickness of the insulator is the added clearance required. This kind of insulation is frequently done in tunnels to minimize the diameter of the tunnel.

 

[pstogios]

For some reason this forum is fascinated by pantographs.

 

[TransitBart]

For some reason this forum is fascinated by pantographs.

Probably because although we are all fans of the TTC and its streetcars, it is well time that the system took the leap into the 21st century; and that operators didn't have to jump out into the middle of an intersection to re-wire a trolley pole and we all got to our destinations on time.

 

[nfitz]

So they'll just jump out and manually change the switches then ...

 

[TransitBart]

So they'll just jump out and manually change the switches then ...

If it were not for Steve Munro, I would not know the abbreviation SOGR or "state of good repair". I hope my buddy Justin comes through with the cash for some of the backlog. But all in all, the city's politicians need to be a good deal less parochial and have the balls to raise taxes because we get what we pay for and it don't pay for, or maintain itself. The state of the switches is pathetic. Apparently; however, they are double throw and completely automatic in the Leslie Barns complex. Proof that it *can* be done.

 

[cplchanb]

Probably because although we are all fans of the TTC and its streetcars, it is well time that the system took the leap into the 21st century; and that operators didn't have to jump out into the middle of an intersection to re-wire a trolley pole and we all got to our destinations on time.

21st century...??? try late 20th......TTC has only begun to dig their heads out of the sand

 

[TransitBart]

21st century...??? try late 20th......TTC has only begun to dig their heads out of the sand

Agreed 100%. But none of us should blame the TTC or its staff. The city, and the bungling inept TTC board and city council are responsible for this mess. For the whining about not receiving handouts from higher order government. For the lack of direction and courage. For the failure to lead, and the failure to demand and and the failure to be prepared to pay for - a truly modern, strong transit system.

 

[smallspy]

It's been a long time but I think the additional clearance is something around 90mm IF nothing else changes.

From the wire? Much, much more than that.

About 10" from the wire in all directions is seen as the minimum safe clearance limit, when energized with 25KV. And once the various factors for sag of the wire, they like more than that.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[rbt]

From the wire? Much, much more than that.

About 10" from the wire in all directions is seen as the minimum safe clearance limit, when energized with 25KV.

The 90mm number was additional clearance from 600V dc in the above picture of King Street to 25kV ac using a similar overhead rail design.

The statement earlier was that 25kv required significantly higher clearance than the picture so I tried to put a number on it. It's been 15 years since I did anything related to electrical engineering; it certainly could be wrong.

And once the various factors for sag of the wire, they like more than that.

There is no sag in overhead rail. Catenary would have plenty of additional issues.

 

[smallspy]

The 90mm number was additional clearance from 600V dc in the above picture of King Street to 25kV ac using a similar overhead rail design.

The statement earlier was that 25kv required significantly higher clearance than the picture so I tried to put a number on it. It's been 15 years since I did anything related to electrical engineering; it certainly could be wrong.

Unfortunately, I've never seen any engineering drawings for the TTC's install of overhead catenary in terms of what the required clearances are. But my assumption is that the 600V system used on the streetcar would be far less like to arc than a high-voltage system such as what is being proposed for GO.

For instance, the safe clearances around the third rail of the subway system - which uses the same 600Vdc system as the streetcars - is considerably less than 10".

There is no sag in overhead rail. Catenary would have plenty of additional issues.

My apologies, I didn't realize that you were referring to contactor rail specifically.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Edit: Ugh, messed up the formatting pretty badly on this, sorry.

 

[ksun]

Probably because although we are all fans of the TTC and its streetcars, it is well time that the system took the leap into the 21st century; and that operators didn't have to jump out into the middle of an intersection to re-wire a trolley pole and we all got to our destinations on time.

I remember seeing that in Shanghai, back in in the 1990s.

 

[ksun]

Agreed 100%. But none of us should blame the TTC or its staff. The city, and the bungling inept TTC board and city council are responsible for this mess. For the whining about not receiving handouts from higher order government. For the lack of direction and courage. For the failure to lead, and the failure to demand and and the failure to be prepared to pay for - a truly modern, strong transit system.

Toronto will never have a truly modern and strong transit system. It is simply not possible. Even downtown is poorly served today.