TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[nfitz]

No, Toronto would still be the first and only. Waterloo, Crosstown, and now Edmonton would all be FLEXITY Freedom.

I wasn't really differentiating between the Outlook and Freedom in my thoughts ... this is only the second 100% low-floor Bombardier LRV order I'm aware of; the 400-car (and counting with various options) Ontario order and now this.

My point being the use of the word "keep" in the post I replied to.

 

[salsa]

 

[cplchanb]

well they have 3 weeks to deliver 4 more....could they magically ramp up to the promised rate right now???????

 

[doady]

12 streetcars??? Wow.

 

[Megaton327]

Rode 4413 just now on 509. Interestingly unlike 4412 this one DID have the credit/debit tap readers on the payment machines, on day one.

 

[DSC]

Rode 4413 just now on 509. Interestingly unlike 4412 this one DID have the credit/debit tap readers on the payment machines, on day one.

View attachment 60936

Now the bugs appear to be ironed out I assume this will be the standard from now on.

 

[ehlow]

So basically no increase in the rate of production over the whole year

 

[nfitz]

well they have 3 weeks to deliver 4 more....could they magically ramp up to the promised rate right now???????

They have 3 weeks to deliver 7 more; the promise was 16 IN SERVICE with 19 actually delivered.

 

[salsa]

well they have 3 weeks to deliver 4 more....could they magically ramp up to the promised rate right now???????

You know Bombardier f*ked up when even nfitz gave up defending them anymore .

 

[crs1026]

Back a ways there was a spirited discussion about how long the break in period needed to be before TTC signed off to accept. Has TTC shortened the break in run? 4413 sure seems to have hit the road quickly.

- Paul

 

[nfitz]

Back a ways there was a spirited discussion about how long the break in period needed to be before TTC signed off to accept. Has TTC shortened the break in run? 4413 sure seems to have hit the road quickly.

Most recently the cars have taken 13 days to enter service after arrival, and have ranged from 13 to 19 days since deliveries became regular - other than the 21 days that the one that was vandalize en route. This one only took 9 days.

I'm not sure if it's a shorter break in run, or if now they can do the inspection and all that faster using the proper equipment at Leslie Barn rather than doing it at Hillcrest.

Still, the real issue will be the delivery frequency. This one was 28 days - most have been about 34 to 49 days. Still a long way to go. Even if another shipped today, it's going to be a 15-day gap, and not the promised 5 to 7-day gap.

 

[rbt]

You know Bombardier f*ked up when even nfitz gave up defending them anymore .

NFitz, to my eye, never defended Bombardier. He was defending facts versus made up shit. You don't need to make stuff up in order to make Bombardier look bad on this order.

 

[nfitz]

NFitz, to my eye, never defended Bombardier. He was defending facts versus made up shit. You don't need to make stuff up in order to make Bombardier look bad on this order.

Mostly. I have (and still d0) maintain. that with the high quality vehicles arriving, even if Bombardier ends up 5 years late on the delivery, then we are better off to keep going with them, than switching, as we'd not get cars any earlier, nor would they likely be as cheap to meet the same specs. Though we are at about 12 cars a year currently ... which would be 12 years late (2031), not 5 (2023); they have to get it up to at least 24 cars a year really, and preferably the originally promised 39, or the more recent promise of 50.

 

[crs1026]

Though we are at about 12 cars a year currently ... which would be 12 years late (2031), not 5 (2023); they have to get it up to at least 24 cars a year really, and preferably the originally promised 39, or the more recent promise of 50.

My mind boggles at the thought of what this slow pace must mean for Bombardier's supply chain. There are how many parts in one Flexity? The various suppliers and subcontractors have likely produced and shipped based on the 39-50 per year target that would have been in their contract, at least for the first year. I wonder how much material is warehoused - and where. The longer the contract is delayed, the greater the likelihood that some manufacturer will default or disappear altogether before shipping the full production run.
One also wonders about the production floor in Thunder Bay. Surely they don't build one vehicle from top to bottom, then start the next....there will be some sort of line with several vehicles in progress. Whatever is continuing to hold up production must be pretty fundamental, or you'd have some almost finished vehicles just waiting for the last touches....and at some point the logjam would clear with a flood of them. This doesn't seem to be happening.

- Paul

 

[robmausser]

My mind boggles at the thought of what this slow pace must mean for Bombardier's supply chain. There are how many parts in one Flexity? The various suppliers and subcontractors have likely produced and shipped based on the 39-50 per year target that would have been in their contract, at least for the first year. I wonder how much material is warehoused - and where. The longer the contract is delayed, the greater the likelihood that some manufacturer will default or disappear altogether before shipping the full production run.
One also wonders about the production floor in Thunder Bay. Surely they don't build one vehicle from top to bottom, then start the next....there will be some sort of line with several vehicles in progress. Whatever is continuing to hold up production must be pretty fundamental, or you'd have some almost finished vehicles just waiting for the last touches....and at some point the logjam would clear with a flood of them. This doesn't seem to be happening.

- Paul

If Bomber is to be believed, the issue is because they keep getting NEW problems from their supply chains. As in, as soon as they solve the issue with the frames, another set of parts comes with faulty electronics.

Which is actually crazy. It shows the low level of quality control from their suppliers. It should be that you fix the kinks, and thats it. The fact that NEW problems are showing up? That really is surprising.

Also, something like 5 managers quit/were laid off on this project. I think someone new comes on board, is either unable to take on the project at such a critical stage, or simply doesn't think its worth it and leaves. Which means there are delays each time a new manager needs to relearn the work process, or attempt to fix things.

Also they are a company, and I am sure they have done tons of cost/benefit analysis to determine how much they should spend solving the problem, and what kind of ROI each scenario has. They will only fix the problem as much as they see it having an issue with their PR and bottom line. Clearly they don't think that it has reached a critical point, whether they are right or wrong.

From a financial point of view, which is how top brass only really look at things, its always a game of chess. Like with recalling cars: will it cost the car company more to recall, then to pay off lawsuits and public reaction from the deaths of ensuing issues from this faulty part? If yes, then they don't do it.