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Transit City Plan

Which transit plan do you prefer?

  • Transit City

    Votes: 95 79.2%
  • Ford City

    Votes: 25 20.8%

  • Total voters
    120
It's a bit more complicated that this and the resulting operational cost savings depend heavily on planned service patterns.

Yes, it should be possible to cut labor costs substantially by moving to larger LRVs. To take the extreme, you could link 2-3 LRVs together and the resulting train ought to accommodate 750 ppl! You could then drop from 30 peak hour vehicles to 4 to serve the demand you give. I don't think the TTC surface LRTs are being designed to handle 2-3 unit trains, but in theory it's possible.

And, yes, past certain ridership demands, LRVs ought to cost less per passenger trip or passenger km. The exact crossover point will depend, though. The typical range seems to be 1,500 pphpd to 2,500 pphpd, in both cases qualifying lines like Finch West.

Lower operational costs don't necessarily make something a good investment, however. Even the most expensive surface bus routes tend not to cost more than 20-30 million per year. Even assuming that running 1/3rd the number of LRVs would result in 1/3rd the operating costs (~10m/year), the operational savings don't quite make up for the hundreds of millions of dollars they cost to build. This is using very favourable assumptions for the LRVs.

Unless the TTC was going to hugely reduce operating frequencies down to 4-5 vehicles per hour, I don't think you could justify LRTs as a cost cutting measure. Then you'd also have to consider the travel time implications since you'd be increasing average wait times from a minute or two to 7-10mins.

To my knowledge, all Transit City LRT lines, except Eglinton, are expected to use 2-car trainsets (Eglinton with start with 2-car trainsets as well, but its underground stations will be capable to support 3-cars and the surface stops will presumably be adjusted if / when needed).

The issue of capital vs operating costs is not simple and involves many factors. If the saving from LRT is $10 M / year and the capital cost for LRT is $500 M over BRT, then LRT will pay off in 55 - 60 years dependent on the interest rate. This is not bad, given that transit infrastructure usually stays in place for many decades.

Plus, LRT will likely have a few other advantages: more appeal for development leading to higher tax revenues; easier to handle additional demand if the ridership exceeds expectations; reduced dependency on the cost of diesel fuel. (The fossil fuel prices seem to have stabilized due to the new extraction methods, and probably will not spike in the next 10 years or so, but the longer-term trend is, likely, still up.)
 
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Another advantage with LRT on the surface is that store fronts are visible from the trains. Better than paying extra to advertise in the stations.

Visible from surface public transit. Not visible from underground public transit.
HonestEdsTorontoBathurstandBloor.jpg
 
Report reviewing Metrolinx's Big move.

reviewihttp://www.neptis.org/sites/default/files/metrolinx_review_2013/review_of_metrolinxs_big_move_neptis_foundation_sc habas.pdf

P.7

3. Projects for which the business case is weak

Metrolinx itself acknowledges that the business cases for the $2-billion Finch and Sheppard LRT projects
are weak.


The report finds that surface LRT in the inner suburbs will not attract large numbers of new riders because the distances are too far, the services are too slow, and the vision of “Avenues†along Sheppard and Finch is unrealistic. The Benefits Case Analysis for the Finch and Sheppard Light Rapid Transit (LRT) projects also does not reflect current plans, as it was created for a single continuous line rather than the two separate lines now being proposed.

The report shows how the Scarborough RT, the proposed Sheppard LRT, and the Sheppard subway line can be combined into a single automated light rail system for a similar cost, yet the resulting system would attract many more riders than either TTC’s LRT proposal or the subway alternative.

Here's my thoughts:

1-I've been branded anti-LRT for saying many time that LRT on Sheppard made no sense and it was way too slow to attract new riders... On top of it, the new Scarborough makes the old LRT studies on Sheppard completely irrelevent since it's safe to assume the ridership will drop west of McCowan which puts that part of the corridor in BRT territory. I think a subway extension to Victoria Park and BRT to Morningside is appropriate.

A 50 minutes LRT ride from Morningside to Don Mills wont convince many drivers to leave their cars at home. Well, this report just confirms it and add to it that even Metrolinx recognize the business case was weak. In Metrolinx's defense, Transit City wasn't their idea. It was Miller-Giambrone's baby and when the province told them they had billions to spend on transit, they went all out on suburban LRT instead of taking the check and build the DRL that could have been opening it's first station before the Pan Am games.

Metrolinx did prepared a report where they did recommended to merge both Finch and Sheppard LRT via Don Mills but TTC kept the lines separated but the province's cut did prevent Finch from reaching Yonge St.

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/regiona...enefitscases/Benefits_Case-Sheppard-Finch.pdf

2-I have many time been vocal against Sheppard being converted to LRT due to cost and in it's current form. The study points out that the best scenario would be to merge Scarborough LRT, Sheppard East LRT (at McCowan most likely) and the Sheppard Subway (Converted back to LRT). Ok, I acknowledge that their conclusion is most likely accurate.

The point that I like about their argument is the following :

a single automated light rail system

A system light that means that you cannot use the Transit City design at all. That line would have to be 100% grade separated on it's entire length.

-At grade with barriers at the intersections
-Elevated
-bypass intersections by using portals

A line like that looks like the DLR in London shich is an LRT. That, I would support 200%

[video=youtube;k90344T5de4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k90344T5de4[/video]
 
Report reviewing Metrolinx's Big move.

reviewihttp://www.neptis.org/sites/default/files/metrolinx_review_2013/review_of_metrolinxs_big_move_neptis_foundation_sc habas.pdf

P.7



Here's my thoughts:

1-I've been branded anti-LRT for saying many time that LRT on Sheppard made no sense and it was way too slow to attract new riders... On top of it, the new Scarborough makes the old LRT studies on Sheppard completely irrelevent since it's safe to assume the ridership will drop west of McCowan which puts that part of the corridor in BRT territory. I think a subway extension to Victoria Park and BRT to Morningside is appropriate.

A 50 minutes LRT ride from Morningside to Don Mills wont convince many drivers to leave their cars at home. Well, this report just confirms it and add to it that even Metrolinx recognize the business case was weak. In Metrolinx's defense, Transit City wasn't their idea. It was Miller-Giambrone's baby and when the province told them they had billions to spend on transit, they went all out on suburban LRT instead of taking the check and build the DRL that could have been opening it's first station before the Pan Am games.

Metrolinx did prepared a report where they did recommended to merge both Finch and Sheppard LRT via Don Mills but TTC kept the lines separated but the province's cut did prevent Finch from reaching Yonge St.

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/regiona...enefitscases/Benefits_Case-Sheppard-Finch.pdf

2-I have many time been vocal against Sheppard being converted to LRT due to cost and in it's current form. The study points out that the best scenario would be to merge Scarborough LRT, Sheppard East LRT (at McCowan most likely) and the Sheppard Subway (Converted back to LRT). Ok, I acknowledge that their conclusion is most likely accurate.

The point that I like about their argument is the following :

a single automated light rail system

A system light that means that you cannot use the Transit City design at all. That line would have to be 100% grade separated on it's entire length.

-At grade with barriers at the intersections
-Elevated
-bypass intersections by using portals

A line like that looks like the DLR in London shich is an LRT. That, I would support 200%

[video=youtube;k90344T5de4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k90344T5de4[/video]

IMO, I think the province will bend to the Sheppard Subway if enough money from the revenue tools comes in after this. Finch... I don't know...
 
Page 57 of the report

http://www.neptis.org/sites/default...olinxs_big_move_neptis_foundation_schabas.pdf


They are really tearing Transit City apart...especially how the reports to justify Transit City had poor methodology, incomplete data and flawed conclusions...border line bias.

Methodology

Although the schemes together will cost billions of dollars, and contracts are already being signed, there seems to have been very little evaluation of the economic or financial impacts. TTC staff produced an 18-page report, really just a memorandum,63 called “Evaluation and Comparison of Routes,” which simply lists the proposed schemes, giving their length, capital cost, and annual ridership. There is no mention of alternative routes or modes. There is no estimate of economic benefits. There is no information about operating costs or revenues. While the report breaks riders down into “Existing” and “New – Projected 2021” it is not clear whether these number represent riders that are new because of the scheme, or merely underlying growth; probably they include a bit of both. Background tables list potential populations and specific traffic generators that will be served, but no information was published on whether the impact would be worth the costs.


Methodology

The Transit City schemes attracted political support very quickly, and Metrolinx included them in The Big
Move. Four of Metrolinx’s “Big 5” schemes are in fact Transit City schemes.65 Transit City materials are liberally illustrated with photographs of trams running on tree-lined avenues. But they are short on hard facts and figures about cost, ridership and benefits.


Eglinton Crosstown Ridership

There are some inconsistencies in the data presented in the Eglinton Crosstown BCA. Ridership seems to be very high: about 350,000 per day and more than double the TTC forecast and three times existing bus ridership. Yet incremental revenues are very small, implying less than 10,000 new riders per day. Operating costs seem optimistic; the figures suggest that savings from operating fewer bus-km would not only entirely offset all costs of operating the LRT, but also provide a substantial surplus.


Eglinton Crosstown cost

Although LRT is often proposed as a way to offer the service speed of a subway, at the cost of a streetcar, the infrastructure costs are still substantial and in some cases not much less than for a full subway.


Transit City cost ratio

According to Metrolinx’s own Benefit Case Analyses, these schemes are not worthwhile, at least as transport investments. The Benefit:Cost ratios are all less than 1.0 and some are less than 0.5, indicating that costs are more than double the estimated benefits. Cost per new transit rider is high: $40,000 or more. At this rate, Metrolinx would need $50 billion to achieve its 2033 ridership objectives, not the $36 billion it
is currently trying to raise.


Transit City purpose

The Transit City schemes seem to have been developed more to achieve an urban design vision than to improve transportation in Toronto. The TTC’s original “Transit City” report of 2007 describes the scheme as supporting “city-building,” and includes pictures of LRT systems in attractive, mostly European environments. At about the same time, the city was developing its “Avenues” program, attempting to create a more pedestrian- and bicycle-friendly environment along urban and suburban arterials.[/B]


Sheppard Subway conversion

TTC looked at converting the Sheppard Subway to LRT technology, but the cost to rebuild the stations for low-floor cars would have been about $600 million.


How can Transit City be improved?

1-Neither Metrolinx nor TTC seems to have given serious consideration to development of Scarborough and Eglinton Crosstown lines using ALRT or similar “light metro” technology. This technology has been applied very successfully in more than 20 cities around the world. Some architects and urban designers prefer surface LRT, because it is less visually intrusive, and can run in mixed traffic and pedestrian environments, albeit at much lower speeds. But faster services on exclusive rights-of-way are far more effective, and efficient, at getting motorists to switch to transit.

2-The Toronto LRT schemes could be greatly improved by building them with fully exclusive rights of way, perhaps automated ALRT or similarly technology. Ridership would be much higher, as would the benefits to the region. And the costs could actually be less.

3-Metrolinx could begin by negotiating with Bombardier to supply ALRT cars, as are being built for Vancouver, in place of the 182 Flexity Freedom low-floor LRT cars. To the best of our knowledge, Bombardier has not actually started building these cars. Currently it is building the Flexity Outlook cars for Toronto’s streetcar lines. The first Flexity Freedom is not due to be delivered for at least three years. ALRT cars are smaller than Flexity cars, but also cheaper. Metrolinx should be able to order at least 182 ALRT cars from Bombardier, for the same price. Toronto is a key customer of Bombardier and, although the negotiation may not be easy, Metrolinx should be able to get a reasonable deal.

4-If Bombardier refuses to negotiate a change to ALRT technology at a reasonable price, Metrolinx should be
prepared to cancel the contract and invite new competitive bids, even if it means paying substantial cancellation penalties. There is no point burdening Toronto for the next century with the wrong system.


Ways to improve the Eglinton Crosstown scheme

1.Reduce the number of intermediate stations, to reduce capital and operating costs, offer faster journey times that will attract more new riders, and reduce disruption in surrounding communities. There should be a maximum of 10 stations on the 11-km underground section. The Avenue Road, Chaplin, and Oakwood stations could be omitted. Laird Drive station can be deferred, and built if and when a developer makes a substantial capital contribution to the station. Capital cost savings would be about $600 million, with a further savings of $1 million per year O&M costs per station.

2. Use high-floor cars with a top speed of 100km/h, such as the ALRT Mark 3 being supplied to Vancouver, instead of the 80 km/h low-floor cars TTC has specified. Besides saving staff costs, the higher speeds and faster journey will attract additional riders. Note that, as on the subway and existing RT, high-floor ALRT cars stop at high platform stations and will therefore be fully accessible.

3. Grade-separate the entire line, so trains will not affect road traffic and will offer faster journeys for transit riders. East of Laird Drive and west of Weston Road, Eglinton is a wide street with plenty of space to build an elevated line without harming the environment. This would add about $800 million to project costs, or perhaps $100 million per km, compared with the surface line that is currently planned. Road traffic disruption will be greatly reduced and there will be little or no permanent loss of road space.

4. Automate the trains. With an entirely grade-separated line, trains can be automated, with large
operating cost savings
and the ability to offer more frequent off-peak services.

5.Build shorter platforms to reduce station costs. Current plans show 150-metre platforms, similar to the subway. Savings of about $10 million per underground station, or about $100 million could be captured by building 60-metre platforms, sufficient for all foreseeable traffic.


Consider BRT for Finch West

-At present, there appears to be no reasonable economic case for building the Sheppard East or Finch West LRTs

-In the Environmental Project Report, there is a brief consideration of BRT. The report states LRT is chosen because although “the capital costs of…BRT are lower than for LRT, roughly $10 million per km in contrast to approximately $40 million per km for LRT … ongoing maintenance costs … for LRT is anticipated to be cheaper than BRT.” There is no consideration of whether the maintenance cost difference can offset the large capital cost. By comparison, Mississauga also considered an LRT for the Dundas route, but decided that BRT offered better value for money.
 
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There is a Review of Metrolinx's Big Move, that is in PDF form at this link.

The Executive Summary reads:

In its first discussion paper, the Transit Investment Strategy Advisory Panel constituted by Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne to review the Metrolinx Investment Strategy noted:
“The infrastructure investments we make today will determine the quality of our lives for generations. Despite consensus on the seriousness and scope of the problem, we can’t seem to agree on how to solve it.”

If decision-makers are to reach agreement on transit investment projects, they must have information that is clear, complete, and consistent to allow for the comparison of the relative merits and drawbacks of proposed projects. At present, this type of information is not readily available, and its absence is impeding public and political debates on how the region can use transit to reduce congestion and improve economic competitiveness.

Given the urgent need to expand transit in the region and to make decisions based on the best possible evidence, the Neptis Foundation commissioned this evaluation of all Metrolinx projects on a consistent basis, the first study of its kind for the Big Move. The report analyses the business case for each project individually and as a package. It also draws on international best practices to offer suggestions for improving certain projects to help Metrolinx realize its goals of doubling transit ridership by 2031, reducing average commute times and highway congestion across the region.

Using data from Metrolinx and TTC and making reasonable assumptions where information is unavailable, this report estimates the total cost of each scheme, including both capital and whole-life operating costs and benefits, the number of new riders that would be attracted to transit, what percentage of the costs could be recovered through passenger revenues, the net financial effect (which, if negative, is known as the “Funding Gap”), and the economic benefits, including time savings to motorists using less congested roads. These calculations generate key indicators, including Net Costs, Net Incremental Revenues, Net Benefits, Benefit:Cost Ratio, and Net Cost per New Transit Rider. As a general rule, if Net Benefits do not exceed Net Costs, and the Benefit:Cost Ratio is therefore less than 1.0, a scheme should not go ahead, at least not without modification.

The result is a high-level analysis that, for the first time, allows comparisons among the proposed projects and should help decision makers and the public better understand which Big Move projects offer the best value for money.

Key Conclusions

The report shows that while some projects represent good value for money, several can be modified to improve cost-effectiveness. A few projects should be reconsidered in their entirety (see Figure E1). The advice to Metrolinx is to consider a “course correction” to ensure that the Big Move reaches its important goals, and makes the best use of its available funds.

1. Recommended Projects

Union Pearson Express, the subway to Vaughan and several “Next Wave” 905 BRT-LRT schemes generally provide good value. Although the Metrolinx analysis indicates that some of the 905 schemes have low Benefit:Cost Ratios, they are recommended because the Metrolinx analysis ignored the potential of improved transit to alter development or travel patterns and so may have underestimated ridership and benefits.

Metrolinx could push more aggressively to upgrade the GO Rail network into a Regional Express Rail network, through electrification and the operation of faster and more frequent all-day two-way services. GO Rail represents an underdeveloped asset that has more potential to take cars off the regional highways than any other scheme. In the 2008 Big Move plan, upgrading the GO rail network was listed as Metrolinx’s “Number One” priority. Now it is on the back burner, with a 15- to 25-year implementation timeframe. Without this “backbone” of the regional transit system, the value of most of the other schemes is reduced.

Metrolinx may have hesitated to proceed with Regional Express Rail because the costs are considerable, without realizing that the benefits are even more so. GO Transit produced a flawed electrification study of the Lakeshore corridor that overlooked the potential of operating a mixed fleet, using electric locomotives to propel the existing bi-level cars along with smaller Electric Multiple Units (EMUs). The report shows how a mixed-fleet strategy would be more cost-effective, and how an incremental investment of about $1 billion on the Lakeshore line could be offset entirely with additional fare revenues and operational savings. The entire GO system, including branches to Milton, Georgetown, Barrie, Richmond Hill, and Stouffville can be upgraded to a 15-minute-all-day, two-way service with 25% faster journey times for less money than the cost of the Phase 1 of the Downtown Relief Line.

2. Projects recommended with modifications


The report shows that the value for money of some Metrolinx schemes can be substantially improved, with specific modifications. As currently planned, the costs of the Eglinton Crosstown line are about twice the expected benefits. However, the Benefit:Cost Ratio can be improved if the construction of stations at Chaplin, Oakwood, Avenue Road, Laird Drive, and Mount Pleasant is postponed – unless major redevelopment is planned for the areas surrounding these stations. Each station costs more than $200 million to build, yet will attract only a few hundred new transit riders per day. The benefits of the line would be increased if the surface sections were elevated, allowing for faster travel times, while eliminating impacts on road traffic. With automated trains, as used on Vancouver’s Skytrain, the additional costs could be entirely offset by additional revenues and operational savings.

Similarly the business case for the subway to Richmond Hill can be improved by deferring construction of several underground stations, which can be added later with contributions from developers with property interests along the line.

3. Projects for which the business case is weak

Metrolinx itself acknowledges that the business cases for the $2-billion Finch and Sheppard LRT projects are weak.

The report finds that surface LRT in the inner suburbs will not attract large numbers of new riders because the distances are too far, the services are too slow, and the vision of “Avenues” along Sheppard and Finch is unrealistic. The Benefits Case Analysis for the Finch and Sheppard Light Rapid Transit (LRT) projects also does not reflect current plans, as it was created for a single continuous line rather than the two separate lines now being proposed.

The report shows how the Scarborough RT, the proposed Sheppard LRT, and the Sheppard subway line can be combined into a single automated light rail system for a similar cost, yet the resulting system would attract many more riders than either TTC’s LRT proposal or the subway alternative.

Metrolinx’s BCA for the proposed $7.4-billion Downtown Relief Line contains no quantitative information about the likely benefits or incremental ridership, and provides no basis for policymakers to
decide whether to support the scheme. Making reasonable assumptions, the report suggests that there is little chance that benefits of this scheme will offset even half its cost.

This report suggests relief to subway congestion can be provided more quickly by upgrading GO Transit services and integrating them with the TTC, at a fraction of the cost of a new line. A new link between TTC’s Main Street station and GO’s Danforth station, with integrated fares and shuttle trains to Union Station, would take thousands of passengers out of the Bloor-Yonge interchange at rush hour.

Similar opportunities exist at Dundas West, Kipling, and Kennedy stations.

4. Overlooked opportunities to improve services and increase value for money

The report identifies several opportunities to optimize transit that Metrolinx has overlooked:


  • Integration of Services and Fares: Although TTC has now agreed to implement the PRESTO fare card as an “electronic purse,” the benefits of this initiative will be limited unless there is also full integration of the regional fare structure. “Smart pricing” with differential fares for peak and off-peak travel and lower fares for trips involving multiple operators can generate more revenue while attracting more riders onto the system. TTC’s view that fare integration will reduce revenues is, we think, mistaken. GO could also introduce charges for car parking at stations, perhaps offsetting the impact with a reduction in off-peak fares.
  • Subway Modernization: The report suggests that a subway modernization package with a 33% increase in capacity and improvements in off-peak frequency, offering transit passengers a faster and more comfortable journey, would result in a 10% increase in ridership and another 15% increase in revenues with “smart pricing.”
  • Operating Efficiencies: The report highlights some outdated operating practices, and estimates the potential financial benefits that could be achieved with automation of the subway and competitive tendering of service delivery, as is now common in many other cities. While the report endorses proposed charges for car usage and parking, which will encourage the shift to transit, it suggests that transit agencies need to demonstrate that they are efficient operators before asking for additional financial support.

5. Ridership goals

The report finds that the projects, as proposed, will not achieve the objective of doubling transit ridership. By 2033, the Metrolinx schemes currently under construction or planned will attract only about 700,000 new daily riders. Growth in demand on existing routes will be about 600,000, bringing the total daily ridership up to about 3.4 million, 800,000 short of the Metrolinx target of 4.2 million. With 800,000 more daily trips being made by car, traffic congestion will worsen and average daily commute times will continue to rise. Optimizing the system could, however, improve this situation, attracting about 43% more riders, with 20% less capital expenditure. With higher revenues and greater operating efficiencies, the net Funding Gap would be reduced by more than 50%.

6. Transparency

In 2008, Metrolinx committed to issuing a Benefits Case Analysis (BCA) for every project, and to using these analyses for prioritizing investment in schemes with a “regional focus.” In fact, Metrolinx has not released BCAs for many projects. Where BCAs are available, they do not always provide the consistent, complete, and comprehensive information decision makers need. Specifically:


  • The BCAs for the $2.6-billion subway extension to Vaughan and the $456-million Union Pearson Express have never been released, even though both schemes are currently under construction.
  • The BCA for the Eglinton Crosstown LRT was not released publicly until the author filed a request under the Freedom of Information Act, and after Metrolinx had awarded contracts to construct the tunnels.
  • The BCA for the Finch and Sheppard Light Rapid Transit (LRT) projects does not reflect current plans. The BCA was prepared for a single continuous line rather than the two separate, shorter lines now being proposed.
  • The BCA for the Downtown Relief Line does not provide any quantitative information about the likely benefits or incremental ridership, and gives no basis for policymakers to evaluate the project.
  • No BCA has been issued for the Scarborough subway, which the Province now says it will fund.
  • While most BCAs provide estimates of total ridership, they usually do not disclose the proportion that is “new” ridership, attracted to transit specifically because of the scheme. This is a critical measure for comparing cost-effectiveness and the contribution to achieving the Metrolinx goals.
The Transit Investment Strategy Advisory Panel has highlighted the need to take account of operating and maintenance costs and their relationship to fares to understand the larger question of whether a new project will be an ongoing financial burden to the system or a source of additional revenue (if fares exceed operating costs). While some of the BCAs present this information, not all do, and there are some large discrepancies between Metrolinx numbers and TTC numbers.

This report represents the first step towards a re-evaluation of Toronto’s regional transit plan. It is not meant to scuttle existing plans, but to improve them. It is based on the limited information made available by Metrolinx and on the author’s experience in international transit systems. More analysis is needed to understand the potential and the costs of the Big Move and its individual projects, and to give policy makers and regional residents confidence that Metrolinx is delivering projects that will meet its own principles and achieve its stated goals. In the end, the goal is to develop better transit that meets the region’s needs and that demonstrates the power of transit to transform a region and keep it competitive.

The report is about 138 pages long.



The thinking in the report seems to me to be short term or for today. What about tomorrow or the long term?

Will the price of oil be steady or will it rise? Don’t they see that the Far East is burning up more and more oil as they develop. The supply of oil in not infinite, there is only a limited supply. That means the price of oil will, not might, go up.

We need an alternative to car, and more rapid transit is and will be needed. Especially, to and from and around the suburbs. A Don Mills Relief Line WILL be needed. Light rail WILL be needed.

Of course, redevelopment will needed as well. More density, more mixed commercial and residential, more sidewalks, and other changes will be needed. But at the same time, better and more rapid public transit will also be needed and implemented.
 
The report also states that the Union Pearson Express and the subway to Vaughan provide good value, which they don't.
 
it states that the Vaughan subway provides "mediocre" value, with a rating of 1.11 (1.0 sort of being the "breaking point")

It also correctly states that the UPX will be a benefit, and guesses (just like I have all along) that fares will need to be around $15 to break even for operations as Metrolinx plans. (this includes paying the capital costs) Just because you can't afford it on a daily basis doesn't mean it isn't a valuable asset. It also suggests that Metrolinx, through PRESTO, implement fares on the UPX so that the first 6 trips a month are $15, but after that are $3, meaning that an airport worker working 20 days a month (40 monthly trips) pays an average fare of $4.80, allowing for even more usage than what is required for it to become "worth it".
 
Another advantage with LRT on the surface is that store fronts are visible from the trains. Better than paying extra to advertise in the stations.

Visible from surface public transit. Not visible from underground public transit.

People keep saying this. But the reality is that most of the LRT ROWs have nothing that interesting for 99% of their length. LRT has other merits. This ain't a strong one.
 
I actually agree that fully electrified GO could well do more for the region than the DRL, which will really only serve the core.

And here's the jist of the problem. Competing interests and priorities. Congestion is a regional issues. Which Metrolinx should be addressing. But lines like the DRL don't necessarily have as much impact at the regional level despite how much core area transit advocates push for them.
 
I actually agree that fully electrified GO could well do more for the region than the DRL, which will really only serve the core.

And here's the jist of the problem. Competing interests and priorities. Congestion is a regional issues. Which Metrolinx should be addressing. But lines like the DRL don't necessarily have as much impact at the regional level despite how much core area transit advocates push for them.

Congestion is a local-regional issue, not just a regional one - and considering the level and split of transit utilization on the Yonge line (not to mention the TTC as a whole), one really can't say the DRL doesn't have much impact at the regional level.

Let's put it this way, if one is going to make this regional impact argument, there would be no case for extending the BD to STC at all - and the core is a far, far more intense node than STC will ever be.

AoD
 
There has to be the idea of an in between service, where GO is for bringing people in from outside of the city, but also have an intracity commuter rail service to act as the backbone of long distance travel from within the city. With low frequencies off peak, and not too dependent on density being around the stations, but with plentiful feeder routes into them. Also to diverge from time to time from the established rail corridors.
 
Looks like Transit City is back in all but name We seem to be discussing all the corridors now, except Don Mills and Finch West from Yonge to Keele.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...on-subway-light-rail-service/article28763019/

The mention of the Waterfront LRT I think is particularly interesting, since it has been largely overlooked in previous transit debates. It's probably the least polarizing of the lines, since all of the areas it services are areas where LRT is generally looked upon more favourably than the suburbs, and thus is less likely to face community opposition to the very idea of LRT. I suspect that any community opposition, if any, will be centred around details of the plan.
 

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