Allandale25
Senior Member
So would that indicate that the roof or smokejacks are going to be installed soon?
Toronto Union Station Revitalization | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | NORR
So would that indicate that the roof or smokejacks are going to be installed soon?
smallspy
Senior Member
I guess so. If I recall correctly, the smokejacks had to be installed prior to the wood decking, as there was a shelf on the top edge that the wood sat on.
I'm a little bit surprised that they haven't painted the steelwork first, though.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
dowlingm
Senior Member
Not sure if this is the thread this question makes most sense on, but did the whole electrification clearance in the shed thing get figured out, or is everyone still deep in "oh crap" mode?
Jonny5
Senior Member
As far as I can tell it was figured out at the beginning of the project and the sudden alarms about it were completely made up BS.
Jonny5
Senior Member
Not necessarily. They could be doing it a year in advance simply because they have those brackets and the work crews have spare time.
rbt
Senior Member
Yeah, it's figured out. Someone not very knowledgeable went "centenary might not fit" and Metrolinx agreed that it wouldn't fit. The journalist took that statement as "doomed project" rather than "yeah, nobody does that in tight spaces you silly journalist; several other options are available".
Running centenary inside stations is actually kinda unusual; even new and seemingly spacious stations like Berlin's Central station don't. Overhead fixed rail which is effectively an electrified beam (very similar to 3rd rail but overhead) is more common. We even use overhead fixed rail in Toronto (Queens Quay and Spadina Tunnels, under bridges on King) and will install a whole bunch for Eglinton LRT.
SaugeenJunction
Senior Member
I think when Metrolinx costed out building tracks under Union Station for Smarttrack it came to $900 million. Sadly this isn't part of the current plan. I wonder how much cheaper it would have been if the work was being done now. (Source: page 51 of the Smarttrack business case)
steveintoronto
Superstar
I think the eventual solution is *not* Union, but other alignments to spread the load. The rough-in under TTC Yonge/Queen Street is still there, and ostensibly, in never-never land, the CP Mid-Town will also become passenger again, and Summerhill a happening hub. It's time to realize Union is maxed out, and the money spent denying that is better spent elsewhere, like running SomewhatSmartTrack/RER under Queen from the western mainline leg to the eastern, and up Weston Sub and Don Valley subs included.
Looking at those pics of underpinning in Union's present basement renos....errrr....you can only go so far before you run out of engineering heroism to make it work. Grand Central in NYC went 150 ft. down in tunnels for East Side Access...and very serious questions are being asked as to if it will ever be worth it...
MetroMan
Senior Member
I had a better look today. From what I could tell, the existing concourse is just being lowered to the TTC level which will make the ceilings about 5 ft higher. There isn't room to insert another floor. Below the concourse, there will be a new basement level but the concourse will be the same, just with a lowered floor which will give it mucher higher ceilings. It's going to very airy in there.
These windows and the new doors below them will open into the same tall room.
steveintoronto
Superstar
OK! For the first time, I grasp the concept. The doorways below the windows are opening up vertically into the same space. The elevated walkway still doesn't appear to have a practical purpose though. Anyone figure that one out?
MetroMan
Senior Member
Maybe those walkways will correspond to a loft/catwalk inside. They still don't make any sense in this drawing. The canopy's H pillars interrupt the walkway and there aren't any doors to access it, only windows.
There was a newer drawing circulating. Maybe it'll clarify.
There was a newer drawing circulating. Maybe it'll clarify.
steveintoronto
Superstar
That makes good sense on closer observation. You're right about the H pillars. That 'walkway' in fact isn't. It's a series of balconies, ostensibly to watch for arriving contacts, or spying on the proletariate! Access to the 'balcony' has to be from the other side, possibly a corresponding access walkway. Steps to each balcony would foul movement.
A note of reality: If the canopy (which looks incredible) is glass paned...errr...how tough can they make that? If something heavy were to be tossed onto there from the sidewalk above and immediately to the north, it would be catastrophic. Ostensibly the heaviest accumulation of snow X a co-efficient would be a starting point, but what strength would be needed to satisfy the needs of safety for those below?
Edit: OMG! And (dare I raise this?) Bomb proof?
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Sorry, you're both mixed up about that. It is a walkway, not a series of balconies: at walkway level, those are windows through the wall, not doors.
The walkway will connect regular moat level west of the TTC-Union connection (Front Street Centre Moat as per below) with the regular moat level along the Bay Street side of the building. For those walking from one side to the other and not eating to descend stairs on one side and ascend again at the other end, they can also avoid the flow moving between the train station and the subway station. The walkway has shown up on all three versions of the station maps that I have posted over time. You can see it again in the image below:
You can also see the area above where the Bay Concourse will be double height. (It's more than 5 feet deeper than guessed above -it's around 7 to 8 feet deeper. That area is essentially the section labelled 'Bay Street Promenade'. It will look like this, below, looking west from the doors from the Bay Teamway. In the right background, you can see the doors from Union TTC and the windows above.
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The walkway will connect regular moat level west of the TTC-Union connection (Front Street Centre Moat as per below) with the regular moat level along the Bay Street side of the building. For those walking from one side to the other and not eating to descend stairs on one side and ascend again at the other end, they can also avoid the flow moving between the train station and the subway station. The walkway has shown up on all three versions of the station maps that I have posted over time. You can see it again in the image below:
You can also see the area above where the Bay Concourse will be double height. (It's more than 5 feet deeper than guessed above -it's around 7 to 8 feet deeper. That area is essentially the section labelled 'Bay Street Promenade'. It will look like this, below, looking west from the doors from the Bay Teamway. In the right background, you can see the doors from Union TTC and the windows above.
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MetroMan
Senior Member
What an incredible improvement over the stuffy low ceiling concourse. I almost want to cry.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
Exactly, this is what I was trying to desribe. This is the "pedestrian expressway" I meant to describe.
But the real Bay Concourse (with the stairs to tracks) is still above this "mall level".
You can also see where the 20 sets of doors are (about 10 openings, with 20 doors) from the moat.
interchange42 is just confirming what I said about two levels -- with the good diagram of the lower indoor level. There's another diagram (not on this thread page) of the upper level which is the Bay Concourse with the stairs to the tracks. It is a near carbon copy of the York concourse directly above the pedestrian expressway area of the mall level pictured in interchange42's post.
But the real Bay Concourse (with the stairs to tracks) is still above this "mall level".
You can also see where the 20 sets of doors are (about 10 openings, with 20 doors) from the moat.
interchange42 is just confirming what I said about two levels -- with the good diagram of the lower indoor level. There's another diagram (not on this thread page) of the upper level which is the Bay Concourse with the stairs to the tracks. It is a near carbon copy of the York concourse directly above the pedestrian expressway area of the mall level pictured in interchange42's post.
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