Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[Dan416]

Why is everyone saying $25? Under Blue 22 it was going to take 22 minutes and cost $22 no?

If it's being built by the province why not make it like $20 instead?

 

[TOareaFan]

It's $50 from downtown to Pearson

No, it's expected to be $25

and you can get well less in a cab if you negotiate.

No you can't get a cab from downtown to the airport for less than $50....never mind the actual expected fare of $25? From Pearson to Union is a flat rate of $53 pre tip (likely to increase)

.... http://www.torontopearson.com/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=1431

It never takes more than 35 minutes I find.

In my experience it almost always takes that.....and more!

Why pay $25 for ARL, $3 for TTC, and waste all that time walking to the subway and waiting for the ARL, at that price?

It is primarily designed for people who are starting, or ending, their journey downtown......we could paint a lot of scenarios that don't make sense but if you are living dt, or working dt, or visiting dt this will be a quicker and cost effective option.

n the long run these DMUs/EMUs should be stopping at new stations at Liberty, Queen, Eglinton, etc., and charging normal GO rates, with a $5 premium for the airport.

That kind of service should be provided by regular GO trains on the expanded K-line with new stops at black creek/Eglinton and LV and an airport connection via an extension of the people mover to Malton GO station....which also gives Missisauga the bus connection to the airport.....but that does not relegate the ARL to insignificance or render it useless.....they will serve different markets.

 

[EnviroTO]

If not, we built this thing for the tourists, which is nuts.

The moment it was a rail spur into the airport rather than an APM extension to the rail corridor or a corridor diversion it became something for people from out of town. Through traffic would allow for greater frequency and choice. A rail spur oriented towards downtown that can only handle high-platform trainsets on a short platform length really reduces the economic possibilities of the service.

 

[drum118]

Lets see:

Spend $25 that requires walking to the airport station and wait 0-15 minutes for a train, depending how you connect with it. Spend X minutes walking to your hotel assuming it's only a block or 2 away. If more than a block or 2 away, may require using TTC at a cost of $3 and then the time waiting for that service and walking to your hotel. If you have one small/medium luggage, have to haul it down the stair at Union and possible up stairs at a station that does not have an elevator or an escalator working. OK if a single person and more than 2, very expensive ride. Can run into various problems along the line.

Spend $35(?) round trip to use the bus to your hotel that requires the driver to load and off load your luggage. Depending at what hotel you are staying at, bellhop to take your luggage to/from your room. You will spend extra time on the bus making stop to drop off/pickup riders before you get to your hotel. 2 or more in your party, very expensive. Can get caught up in traffic.

Spend $50 each way for a cab and get the same service as a bus, except you only make one stop and that's your hotel. If there 2-4 in your party, very cheap. Can get caught up in traffic.

Given the fact only 17,000 airport passengers go downtown, a very expensive tourist trip for the ARL if it can get more than 50% of those passengers. The less they pickup, higher the operation cost and a very low cost recovery ratio.

One seat riders are very expensive and require higher users fees.

Your call.

 

[nfitz]

Why is everyone saying $25? Under Blue 22 it was going to take 22 minutes and cost $22 no?

When Prime Minister Chretien announced the project was funded back in 2003, and it was supposed to open in 2008, the talk was of a $22 fare. Now that it will open about 6 years later, it's not surprising that it will cost more.

 

[Ryan]

An express from Pearson to Union is needed so I think the ARL is fine for what it is.

I don't think it should make the extra stops at e.g. Eglinton or bloor; it's an exprss service from Pearson to Union. It's the Georgetown/Kitchener line that should make those extra stops.

But Pearson needs to be made into a regional transit hub; the ARL is one important line, but many others are needed to properly serve the airport.

The Eglinton and Finch LRTs, and the Mississauga Transitway should all reach Pearson eventually.

There should also be some connection to Brampton and/or the Georgetown line (Malton station) to provide a north-west connection; also maybe some kind of Highway 27 line connecting to Kipling and possibly Long Branch.

 

[k10ery]

Meanwhile back in reality. It would be nice to have express and local service on the Georgetown corridor to the airport. But how long will it be before GO is running its regular service every 15 minutes all day? How do you build platforms for 12-car trains and King and Queen, etc., and how much does it cost? (Answers: too long, you can't, and too much.) The ARL vehicles look about right to start running S-bahn type service to west Toronto. And they will be here in 4 years, not 20. Building this line for a few tourists seems an awful waste.

 

[dunkalunk]

I agree that there is a need for both express and local service on the Georgetown line. Even at heathrow, they have the more expensive heathrow express and less expensive heathrow connect (making local station stops). GO needs to start removing itself from the commuter rail mindset and start running regional rail type service on more lines than just the lakeshore.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

The line is to be run for cost recovery. The $22 fare was quoted WAY back when SNC Lavalin was going to run the service. They are long out of the plan so why are we still using their numbers. $10 - $15 I think would still be attractive for most potential riders of the line.

 

[ticky]

$25 to the airport... or under $10 to Buffalo on Megabus, whilst saving hundreds of $$$ in airfare. I know which one I'll be staying with.

 

[TOareaFan]

$25 to the airport... or under $10 to Buffalo on Megabus, whilst saving hundreds of $$$ in airfare. I know which one I'll be staying with.

Pretty sure that competing with/attracting riders from the Megabus/Buffalo Airport is not part of their business plan.....nor, frankly, should it be. People who fly out of Buffalo are doing so for reasons that would not be affected by any express route to Pearson. They are already saying "I don't mind if it takes longer to get to airport of my choice because I like the airline/airfare on offer there enough to accept the longer drive and the "hassle" at the border"..........I have never flown out of Buffalo precisely because I am not willing to accept that equation but many have and that is fine....but I doubt many (any?) of those Buffalo airport devotees would ever be swayed to change airports simply because of the ARL...no matter what the cost of the train was.

 

[andrewpmk]

$25 to the airport... or under $10 to Buffalo on Megabus, whilst saving hundreds of $$$ in airfare. I know which one I'll be staying with.

Or Fly Porter if you are going to one of their destinations. If the ARL tries to charge $20-25 one way, or 40-50 round trip, for this thing then this will just encourage people to use the island airport.

Seriously I don't know why anyone would pay that much for the air rail link. Only reason I could see is if Gardiner is congested but the sort of people who will pay this are out of town tourists with lots of cash who don't realize that the Gardiner is congested in rush hour who would rather take taxis. Locals will know that since the 427 is rarely all that bad, taking the air rail link saves little time over the 192 and subway if you want to go anywhere north of Union.

 

[Platform 27]

Locals will know that since the 427 is rarely all that bad, taking the air rail link saves little time over the 192 and subway if you want to go anywhere north of Union.

Except this is where I think the fact that this is board full of keen transit users is clouding discussion a bit. Knowledge of traffic or not, locals aren't, by and large, taking the 192. It represents only a small share of current access to the airport.

There are some folks---myself very much included---who are quite happy to trade a bit of comfort and convenience and speed in order to get a significant cost reduction when we choose airport access via a local-stopping subway plus bus route at a $3 price point (or $0, if you've already justified buying a metropass that month). But we're not typical, and I don't think we're the market the ARL is after.

 

[kkgg7]

I live 10 minutes walking distance away from Union station, so the ARL should serve perfectly for me. But still if it is $25 or $22 one way, I would stick with my subway+192 journey for $2.5 (to be $2.6). It takes about exactly 60 minutes to get to Pearson. I think it is worth spending 30 minutes more to save $20-22.

The maximum I am willing to pay is $15.

If, I have multiple luggages, I can easily find a driver online to pick me up at my door and drive me to whichever gate I need to be at Pearson, for $35. When I travel with a friend, we do this and split the cost for $17.5 per person.

The newark liberty express charges $13 one way or $22 return to/from midtown Manhattan. True Union to YYZ is 40% farther, but I don't think $25 is acceptable, especially Toronto is a cheaper city than NYC.

 

[nfitz]

If, I have multiple luggages, I can easily find a driver online to pick me up at my door and drive me to whichever gate I need to be at Pearson, for $35.

Isn't that illegal though?