Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

nfitz said:
They've ordered 12 brand new DMUs from Nippon Sharyo; presumably they'd run in 6 two-car trains:

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Looks cool. Will be nice to use.
 
k10ery said:
The cost of the spur, station, and rolling stock is about $200 million. If they charge $20/trip and get a million riders a year, then they will cover ALL the costs including capital costs. There is no subsidy.

But hopefully somebody will figure this out and drop the fare to about $10. The revenue loss would be small because passenger volumes would rise a lot - at least according to the KPMG study. And then there is some hope the line could be used by ordinary folks for within-city trips, as you said.
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If this is a one way fare, then you would need a fare of <=$5 to attract non-airport travellers in my opinion. Anything over $10, and there will be hardly any demand at all, as all the cheapskates will continue to use bus #192, and all the rich folks will just "might as well take a taxi".

Maybe there can be price discrimination (e.g. buy a 10 pack of tickets for $50, but $10/trip for infrequent users), depending on whether there is any spare capacity left or not.

This nonsense wouldn't matter as much if (a) the Eglinton line gets extended to the airport via Renforth & Eglinton and (b) we get regular, non premium service every 15 minutes to Bramalea/Brampton. If this happened then passengers going to Airport Corporate Centre could just take Georgetown line then Eglinton line which is a more direct route. Then the airport rail link could be changed to have no intermediate stops between Union and the airport, and few people working near the airport would need to change to buses at Terminal 1 (they would change to buses at Renforth/Eglinton instead).

If Georgetown does not get 15 minute service however then lots of people will be unhappy. My impression was that they were promised once an hour (I once saw some brochures on a GO train promoting the Georgetown South project promising all day service "like the Lakeshore line" which I assumed means once an hour) but if there is more than one train a hour that would be nice.
 
andrewpmk said:
If this is a one way fare, then you would need a fare of <=$5 to attract non-airport travellers in my opinion. Anything over $10, and there will be hardly any demand at all, as all the cheapskates will continue to use bus #192, and all the rich folks will just "might as well take a taxi".
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Not sure they are trying to attract non-airport travellers. The biggest advantage this should have over taxis is time certainty. As a business traveller, the worst thing about our airport (in relation to the offices downtown) is the large varience in travel times from downtown to the airport. We all know that, in theory {and Pan Am games bid books}, it is less than 30 minutes....but we have all experienced 1/1.5/even 2 hour trips to the airport.....so knowing that a train that is, even, $25 (way less than a taxi) can guarantee me a +/- 20 minute trip has a lot of value.
 
andrewpmk said:
Anything over $10, and there will be hardly any demand at all, as all the cheapskates will continue to use bus #192, and all the rich folks will just "might as well take a taxi".
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They've been talking about a greater than $20 one-way fare for this since day one.

Why would you think that anything over $10 would not have any use. The current Airport Express bus from the Airport to Union has a $24 fare and runs every 30 minutes, taking 25 minutes under good traffic conditions. If the train takes 25 minutes under any traffic condition, and runs once every 20 minutes, surely it too could have a $24 fare?

Personally, I'd be really surprised if the fare is much less than $25 one-way. Far cheaper than a tax ... what does it cost now ... over $60 with tip I'd think.
 
nfitz said:
They've been talking about a greater than $20 one-way fare for this since day one.

Why would you think that anything over $10 would not have any use. The current Airport Express bus from the Airport to Union has a $24 fare and runs every 30 minutes, taking 25 minutes under good traffic conditions. If the train takes 25 minutes under any traffic condition, and runs once every 20 minutes, surely it too could have a $24 fare?

Personally, I'd be really surprised if the fare is much less than $25 one-way. Far cheaper than a tax ... what does it cost now ... over $60 with tip I'd think.
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I think even in the middle of the night I've never taken an Airport Express trip that was less than 35 minutes. As for being business class - there are students on the bus most trips in my experience.

If you're taking a flight, you can afford a transfer such as this. You have to be pretty cheap to take TTC to the airport for a trip. Staff on the other hand is a different situation.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
Maybe a fare system,

$22= all day pass
$11= ten ride
$5= single ticket.

Just so you know, it costs onlt 12.50 to go from Oakville to Union Station.
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According to GO transit's web page it costs $6.50 (single fare...less if you have passes) to GO from Oakville to Union.....but I am not sure of the relevance.
 
Darwinkgo said:
You have to be pretty cheap to take TTC to the airport for a trip. Staff on the other hand is a different situation.
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If your coming from near Union Station. If you live close to, or north of, the Bloor-Danforth line, it's not worth the trouble to go downtown to get the bus. Heck, it's not even faster. As GO service improves, it might be worth taking a GO Train to the ARL ... though I'd probably be more likely to take the subway to Dundas West and get on there ... but if it's going to cost me $20 from Dundas West to the Airport ... maybe it would be easier to just stay on the subway 8 more stops and take the express bus from Kipling.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
A divided fare will allow regular people to use and be a stop gap until the eglinton crosstown is extended.
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Regular people can afford $25 to go to the airport.

Not sure what Eglinton Crosstown has to do with anything. It will only stop at Dundas West (Bloor) and Weston. And I'll bet Weston closes quickly when they realise that no one ever gets on.
 
nfitz said:
Regular people can afford $25 to go to the airport.

Not sure what Eglinton Crosstown has to do with anything. It will only stop at Dundas West (Bloor) and Weston. And I'll bet Weston closes quickly when they realise that no one ever gets on.
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I agree......even the Dwest stop is questionable long term if TTC builds another line that goes to airport (Eglinton).

The only thing about the pricing, to me, is that @ $25 that means a couple going on vacation will be paying $50 and at that number you are not far off cab fare. Business travellers are far more likely to be traveling solo than leisure travellers.
 
TOareaFan said:
The only thing about the pricing, to me, is that @ $25 that means a couple going on vacation will be paying $50 and at that number you are not far off cab fare. Business travellers are far more likely to be traveling solo than leisure travellers.
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A good point. The tourists will use it I'd think. But for us locals, TTC will likely be the way to go except when travelling on business.

Perhaps the reason you see so many Londoners dragging their luggage to the Piccadilly line, rather than taking Heathrow Express. Wonder if that will change any when Crossrail opens.
 
If "regular people" can't afford $25 to get to the airport, then I doubt they can afford to fly anywhere from the airport either.

Even for a couple going on vacation, the $50 is reasonable for downtown residents, considering a cab would be as much money and not as predictable. And there are probably enough business travelers and conference attendees to support the service, even at a $25 fare. Its expensive, but it just provides another option for people, and its something more and more travelers are coming to expect when they arrive at an unfamiliar airport.
 
ARL pricing was dreamed up a long time ago using Heathrow Express as the model. Now there's a lot more airports around the world with good cheap connections to local rail transit. Hopefully they will see that Heathrow Express is a thing of the past.

It's $50 from downtown to Pearson - and you can get well less in a cab if you negotiate. It never takes more than 35 minutes I find. Why pay $25 for ARL, $3 for TTC, and waste all that time walking to the subway and waiting for the ARL, at that price?

In the long run these DMUs/EMUs should be stopping at new stations at Liberty, Queen, Eglinton, etc., and charging normal GO rates, with a $5 premium for the airport. But if they bring this $25 fare in now I despair of it ever being converted to that much more useful service. If not, we built this thing for the tourists, which is nuts.
 
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