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Toronto St. Clair West Transit Improvements | ?m | ?s | TTC

LowerBay said:
Oh, give it up! This utopian theoretical light rail ideal that you all subscribe to does not exist.
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I'm with you on this, brotha.

+1
 
LowerBay said:
Oh, give it up! This utopian theoretical light rail ideal that you all subscribe to does not exist.

St. Clair was the TTC's chance to showcase light rail and do it right. They messed up terribly ... period, end of story. Not only is the new line far worse than the old one, but they've completely ruined a whole avenue in the process. All I see is ugly rough uneven concrete everywhere and a street that is divided.

All this to save five <expletive deleted> minutes?
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Hey Keithz, now do you understand what Steve Munro was talking about?
 
kettal said:
Hey Keithz, now do you understand what Steve Munro was talking about?
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Give me one good ethical or logical reason why the anti-LRT movement should not use the end result on St. Clair as ammunition against Transit City.
 
LowerBay said:
Give me one good ethical or logical reason why the anti-LRT movement should not use the end result on St. Clair as ammunition against Transit City.
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Please, do.

While you're at it... I saw a giant rat at one of the restaurants at Chinatown. Obviously this is proof that Toronto cannot handle having any Chinese restaurants, and they should all be illegal.

And the city is always late to pick up my garbage, so therefore Toronto cannot have any style of solid waste management. It can work in other cities, but not here because we're different! We fail at things so therefore should not even try!
 
LowerBay said:
I'm afraid I started all this, because I brought the picture to Steve Munro's attention.

Steve's post is just damage control. The line looks like shit, and it's not a telephoto effect. His pics look better because the distance is out of focus. A human eye must have noticed all those zig zags before a camera was focused on it.

There's a difference between being against light rail in general, and being against light rail in Toronto. The TTC has a very poor track record with light rail, and for this reason, I don't support its expansion in Toronto.

Deep down, Steve knows this, but he simply can't let go of his light rail fantasy. He's devoted his entire life to getting Transit City built, and it's rather sad, because there definitely will be a backlash against the system once it's built.
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+1

Public transit in this city, particularly of the rapid variety is doomed. Too much ideological baggage coupled with too lax political will to shake things up. Streetcars worked in the 70s, lets dropship 'em everywhere, even through Morningside Park! Scientifically proven commuter travelling patterns be damned! Let's shut down several kilometres of a vibrant commercial street for several years, forcing many businesses to close up shop, only to come back with worsening quality of service!
 
kettal said:
Please, do.

While you're at it... I saw a giant rat at one of the restaurants at Chinatown. Obviously this is proof that Toronto cannot handle having any Chinese restaurants, and they should all be illegal.

And the city is always late to pick up my garbage, so therefore Toronto cannot have any style of solid waste management. It can work in other cities, but not here because we're different! We fail at things so therefore should not even try!
Click to expand...

Talk about apples to oranges. I think a real issue is that on top of the glaring flaws of LRT (traffic lights, operators who feel like going 15 km/h, outdoor stops exposed to everything except a gentle summer drizzle [how terrible]) is compounded by the fact that it can't even be built properly.

This is more like seeing a Taco Bell with a drive through on Queen W. You'd say: WTF?
 
Can someone post a list of businesses on St Clair that have been forced to shut down as a result of the ROW construction? That the neighbourhood will actually miss?
 
Living in the area, I can say that where weak businesses have failed strong businesses have come very very strong. While I believe the number of businesses along St. Clair is around 57, the number of new businesses is around 47 which is a very high number.
 
hkric88 said:
Talk about apples to oranges. I think a real issue is that on top of the glaring flaws of LRT (traffic lights, operators who feel like going 15 km/h, outdoor stops exposed to everything except a gentle summer drizzle [how terrible]) is compounded by the fact that it can't even be built properly.

This is more like seeing a Taco Bell with a drive through on Queen W. You'd say: WTF?
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Wait, what are you proposing would be better for St. Clair, then? Is it something entirely indoors, with no traffic lights, and has constant high speed? I'm curious.
 
GraphicMatt said:
Can someone post a list of businesses on St Clair that have been forced to shut down as a result of the ROW construction? That the neighbourhood will actually miss?
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89 businesses have succumbed to the mess that is the St. Clair Right of Way project (I can provide a list in a future post if I find the time). The NIMBYs on St. Clair were initially wrong: they thought parking was more valuable than transit. In the end they turned out to be right: you can't screw up a street for FIVE YEARS and not expect businesses to fail. Once again the city has done such a hatchet job they are going to face a fight on every implementation of 'Transit City', should we ever get the money for all of it. And I pity the stable neighbourhoods that'll get stuck with the new streetcar ROWs which periodically will shut down corridors indefinitely for repairs, affecting whole livelihoods in the process.
 
Fresh Start said:
89 businesses have succumbed to the mess that is the St. Clair Right of Way project (I can provide a list in a future post if I find the time). The NIMBYs on St. Clair were initially wrong: they thought parking was more valuable than transit. In the end they turned out to be right: you can't screw up a street for FIVE YEARS and not expect businesses to fail. Once again the city has done such a hatchet job they are going to face a fight on every implementation of 'Transit City', should we ever get the money for all of it. And I pity the stable neighbourhoods that'll get stuck with the new streetcar ROWs which periodically will shut down corridors indefinitely for repairs, affecting whole livelihoods in the process.
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Yes, a list of those 89 businesses would be really awesome. That's a lot!
 
The biggest issues on St.Clair were firstly caving into NIMBY demands during the design phase, and secondly using centre poles for the electrical. These are the true lessons to be learned. If each Transit City project is tendered out to a general contractor responsible for the whole project and the TTC looses the centre poles in their plan (most trams in the world do not use centre poles) then there is no reason to think St.Clair would happen all over again.
 
One would think that....

The St.Clair ROW has provided some valuable learning lessons for the TTC and the city on how to proceed with the future ROWs regarding TC in regards to implementation.

I personally think that in the end though that St.Clair hasn't been decimated as some are reporting and life will go on. Walking along my section of St.Clair I just don't see the devastation and empty stores people are screaming are a reality.

Maybe I need glasses.
 
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