Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[sixrings]

I live literally across the street from Beth Shalom... You are correct that it was not advertised. In fact the only reason I knew it was happening was because I went to the Office opening... JULY 5th there will be another meeting at forest hill united church at bathurst and eglinton...

 

[rbt]

Well put it another way, when has a transit line ever been built with MORE than initially promised? When they're pushing these things they always show the best possible configuration to people. Then once as the project continues the ends start getting lopped off and the stations get taken out.

It's pretty rare that they start with an expected surplus of up to $650M tied to the project. Dates for extensions certainly move up. Nobody expected Spadina to go past Steeles until McGuinty surprised everybody (even York Region was caught off guard) with funding.

 

[Mapleson]

Well I'm no expert but I'd have thought offpeak frequency was a purely operational decision. You design for peak loads and then decide how many operators to pay for in the middle of the day, right?

I'll leave it to someone else to explain how they could be contemplating peak hour headways that are slower than Sheppard!

Since you are no expert and you didn't want to accept my explaination, instead of just "leaving it", I actually just asked someone... While it's Metrolinx doing the work, the TTC still has input to set the parameters of what they are thinking of doing.

This plan for the route will require a revision of the existing approved transit planning document, and new forecasting of expected ridership numbers on the route. Service modelling includes planning for service levels on opening day (the route is currently expected to open in 2020) as well as to 2031, the last year for which accurate modelling data is available. (Taken from 2031 employment forecasts.)

One scenario that will be modelled is based on a 3-car LRV train running every 6 minutes at peak, 12 at off peak. This scenario was mentioned at one of a series of public meetings about the Crosstown that has taken place along the route since April 26. This possibility does (not) constitute a final decision about frequency of service along the route.

Further details and forecasting will be an important part of the upcoming public consultations on the route that will take place as part of the environmental assessment amendments required for the revised underground route.

The implementation of the Crosstown will also include a review of potential routing changes to existing bus routes that will feed the Eglinton line. Decisions affecting intersecting routes will be part of service planning reviews that will take place closer to the opening of the line in 2020.

Just one last thing I like to mention.... it was mentioned at least twice today that it was "up to 26 stations." I dont think it sounded like a "throw-away line" at all.. Instead it sounded like this is how much money we have and we are going to have to make some serious decisions where stops would be. In fact they said repeatedly thats what alot of the community meetings would be about, deciding where the stops should be.

The 'up to 26 stations' is more of an operational comment than a cost comment. 850m station spacing relates to an average speed of 22 km/h, which was the original TC design for the subway section of the LRT, if they have over 26 stops then the average speed will fall into the same range as the existing Eglinton buses (around 16-18 km/h).

 

[nfitz]

The 'up to 26 stations' is more of an operational comment than a cost comment. 850m station spacing relates to an average speed of 22 km/h, which was the original TC design for the subway section of the LRT, if they have over 26 stops then the average speed will fall into the same range as the existing Eglinton buses (around 16-18 km/h).

The presentation says 26 stops over 25 km. Wouldn't that be an average 1,000 metre spacing? An average 850 metre spacing would give you 30 stations.

 

[Mapleson]

Aye, 850m average spacing would give 30 stations over 25km. However, from Jane to Kennedy is ~19km and the SRT upgrades from Kennedy to STC is ~6km, without additional stations. 26 stations over 19km from Jane to Kennedy is ~760m spacing (10% under original 850m), which would be slower than the initial 22 km/h average, but still an improvement on existing bus service.

 

[nfitz]

26 stations over 19km from Jane to Kennedy is ~760m spacing (10% under original 850m)

Wasn't the original spacing 27 stations over 19 km (≈730 m spacing)? That's what the attached figure on the City of Toronto website has (Phase One - 19 km - 27 stops).

 

[new.flyer.408]

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/presentations/Crosstown_Station_Presentation.pdf

Not surprised to see Ellesmere go.

Granted, this isn't finalised, but I would think gives a fairly good picture.

 

[gweed123]

Wasn't the original spacing 27 stations over 19 km (≈730 m spacing)? That's what the attached figure on the City of Toronto website has (Phase One - 19 km - 27 stops).

A lot of those Eglinton East stations were just platforms though. I'd imagine now that it's going underground they're going to increase the stop spacing along that stretch.

 

[sixrings]

I agree with the new stop spacing, if thats the final form. HOWEVER I do think it is a waste to now build the new rec centre at blackcreek if there isnt going to be a stop there.. The whole purpose of the community centre is to bring some life to a needy area... what good is it if no one can get to it... I dont know how to fix this problem other then to buy some land somewhere else and move it.... Either we are going to waste 300 million building a rec centre no one can get too or we are going to waste 200 million building a extra station so some people can get to it...

 

[Mapleson]

Wasn't the original spacing 27 stations over 19 km (≈730 m spacing)? That's what the attached figure on the City of Toronto website has (Phase One - 19 km - 27 stops).

http://www.toronto.ca/involved/projects/eglinton_crosstown_lrt/pdf/map.pdf

The original spacing was 850m average subway (~11km Keele to Laird, 12 stations, 13 tunnel segments) and 450m-500m average surface including Phase 2 (~8km, 15 stations including Kennedy, 13 segments).

 

[Filip]

So looking through that document we are basically getting subway stations with streetcars running through them.

Hmmm... You'd think they'd make that a bare bones sort of line, like BD, instead we're getting Spadina extension-lite.

 

[nfitz]

A lot of those Eglinton East stations were just platforms though. I'd imagine now that it's going underground they're going to increase the stop spacing along that stretch.

I would too ... I was simply addressing the statements about the past. The presentation that new.flyer.408 just linked to seems to be definitive. 26 stations. If Ellesemere get's restored during the EA then it would be 27.

That presentation is hot off the press. If you look at the internal date information in it, they didn't create the PDF until about 9 AM this morning!

The original spacing was 850m average subway (~11km Keele to Laird, 12 stations, 13 tunnel segments) and 450m-500m average surface including Phase 2 (~8km, 15 stations including Kennedy, 13 segments).

Ah, just the tunnel. Yes, that would be about right. So it looks as though the spacing on the grade-separated portion has increased from 850 to 1000 metres. That should make things run even faster!

 

[Mapleson]

I would too ... I was simply addressing the statements about the past. The presentation that new.flyer.408 just linked to seems to be definitive. 26 stations. If Ellesemere get's restored during the EA then it would be 27.

That presentation is hot off the press. If you look at the internal date information in it, they didn't create the PDF until about 9 AM this morning!

Ah, just the tunnel. Yes, that would be about right. So it looks as though the spacing on the grade-separated portion has increased from 850 to 1000 metres. That should make things run even faster!

Nice find. Is it just me or does it look like Jane and Weston are in some 'future phase' and they're looking at 24 stations now?

 

[Dan416]

Nice find. Is it just me or does it look like Jane and Weston are in some 'future phase' and they're looking at 24 stations now?

The legend does imply that

3 interchange stations:
Eglinton West
Eglinton-Yonge
Kennedy

1 terminal station:
Keele

4 SRT stations:
Lawrence East
Midland
Scarborough Centre
McCowan

16 "Inline" stations (anyone able to clarify what that means? is it just a catchall phrase for any station that's not listed above?)
Caledonia
Dufferin
Oakwood
Bathurst
Chaplin
Avenue
Mount Pleasant
Bayview
Laird
Leslie
Don Mills
Wynford
Bermondsey
Victoria Park
Warden
Birchmount

Although it also says the number of stations is not final and subject to the EA update.

 

[nfitz]

Nice find. Is it just me or does it look like Jane and Weston are in some 'future phase' and they're looking at 24 stations now?

Good question. Future phase? Still being considered for first phase? Who knows?

The other interesting question will be the phasing. Will it still be all or nothing in 2020 (or 2021 ...)? Or as they can move an extra $1-billion of funding from Sheppard East from 2011 to 2014, can they advance it, so that there is an earlier opening of some of the central tunnel - which was 2016 in the earlier Transit City plan.