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1233 Queen East | ?m | 8s

The seats themselves, {YES} if TTC wants to do it and they don't cost more. TTC doesn't want riders to have a nice seat to ride on.

Layout, {NO} as it would require re-engineering and more money.
 
I wouldn't expect a new layout change, as the current one is as close to perfect as you can get (actually, if that rendering is official and accurate, our new streetcars may be more cramped than predicted...). It seems all the other transit agencies in the area have upgraded the quality of the seats in their new vehicles, but the TTC still uses an old and uncomfortable design.
 
If you think the TTC subway seats are uncomfortable, then you should check out the hard benchmark seating in NY's MTA R142's and also Hong Kong MTR's M stock trains. Now, with just those metal seats, those are REALLY uncomfortable. :) However, I do have to say that having those red velvety seats on the subway really makes those seats a lot harder for any cleaners to clean, in comparison to just a plain steal benchmark seating. :)
 
miliado said:
If you think the TTC subway seats are uncomfortable, then you should check out the hard benchmark seating in NY's MTA R142's and also Hong Kong MTR's M stock trains. Now, with just those metal seats, those are REALLY uncomfortable. :) However, I do have to say that having those red velvety seats on the subway really makes those seats a lot harder for any cleaners to clean, in comparison to just a plain steal benchmark seating. :)
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Don't have to go that far, just ride the Montréal Metro to see how their seats are comfortable... not.
 
I got to ride the new rocket again yesterday, and noticed how the lack of centre polls really does make standing difficult, and actually makes the articulated area completely useless. There are 4 polls attached to the walls, allowing 2 people to hold onto each poll. If you are stuck in the middle, you have nothing to hold onto as there are no handles on the ceiling, or polls in the centre. It leaves 4-5 people bouncing around off everyone else, in the most unstable part of the train.

When the train is empty its not bad because you can simply move to another location, but during rush hour, no one moves into that space. Its like the upper level of our buses that everyone avoids. Makes having a train open from end to end pointless since no one can safely take advantage of the extra space.
 
^^

the 10% extra space of the TRs come from the exclusion of driving cabs in each car, not the space provided in connection joints. You should not be standing in those joints in the first place. Not only are they extremely unstable to stand in, having excessive vertical load also may place extensive strees on the joints and shorten its useful life. Also, when the train turns, it is possible to get things caught in the gaps, which may lead to damanged property and/or physical harm.
 
UD2 said:
^^

the 10% extra space of the TRs come from the exclusion of driving cabs in each car, not the space provided in connection joints. You should not be standing in those joints in the first place. Not only are they extremely unstable to stand in, having excessive vertical load also may place extensive strees on the joints and shorten its useful life. Also, when the train turns, it is possible to get things caught in the gaps, which may lead to damanged property and/or physical harm.
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Kind of hard not to stand there when you are in a packed train. It would be a lawsuit waiting to happen if it was that dangerous.
 
UD2 said:
^^

the 10% extra space of the TRs come from the exclusion of driving cabs in each car, not the space provided in connection joints. You should not be standing in those joints in the first place. Not only are they extremely unstable to stand in, having excessive vertical load also may place extensive stress on the joints and shorten its useful life. Also, when the train turns, it is possible to get things caught in the gaps, which may lead to damaged property and/or physical harm.
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The 10% extra space came from both the removal of cabs and the new connection joints. First of all, the cabs in a T1 take nowhere near 10% of the space, and secondly, the cabs in the TR are twice as big as the cab in a T1, so you're only really saving 2 cabs per train.

I agree about standing in the joints, however. If they had used Jacobs bogie articulation (like the ALRV, TGV, NS Sprinter, etc) or bus-style articulation (like articulated buses or Bombardier C20 trains) there would be only one axis of motion, making standing there much more practical.
 
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Electrify said:
I actually liked the seats on Montreal's subway. I think being plastic instead of metal works surprisingly well, despite not being padded.
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I liked them too ... when they were still padded. Plastic didn't seem as comfortable.

As you used the past-tense, what has changed? I haven't used the Metro in 3-4 years.
 
nfitz said:
I liked them too ... when they were still padded. Plastic didn't seem as comfortable.
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The seats aren't plastic - they're fibreglass.

Going back to the center poles, their removal was one of the suggestions made from the Coroner's Inquiry after the Russell Hill accident - it was found that they actually helped prevent the evacuation of the cars, and that they got in the way of the emergency crews when they were working in the damaged cars. The ceiling mounted grabs of the T1s were one of the first design changes made, and many of the H5s have had their stanchions removed as well.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
I am against the center poles as it causes poor flow through the aisles in crowded conditions and is an obstacle to wheelchairs, strollers, and luggage. The ceiling mounted holds make much more sense. It is a shame they didn't put at least a bar under the lowered air conditioning ceiling and above the center of the doorways.
 
They should at least provide more straphangers (that are actually reachable and not in awkward places). I don't know about the specifics of centre poles and impeding flow, but many transit systems around the world that carry more daily commuters than the TTC seem to not have any issues with them.
 
I don't mind the absense of the centre (vertical) poles and do buy the safety reasonings (impede access for wheelchairs and strollers, evacuation, and emergency workers), but they need to offer alternate poles or straps for people to hang on to.

I did notice though that on the Rome subway they have the vertical poles which split into 3 in the middle--hard to explain, but here's the photo I took: http://www.flickr.com/photos/canmark/6041279547/in/set-72157627305860735

I'm wondering why why don't have similar split poles. For example, I do like the pole suspended from the ceiling, but wonder if there could be 2 poles running a foot apart for more hand holds. Or split the vertical poles attached to the seats.
 
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