TDSB Ponders Black-Focused Schools

[DENTROBATE54]

^ "Not my problem anyone"? Sadly this already exists the way schools currently are. Teachers tend to invest as little effort as they can in ensuring the black students keep up with everyone else. Teaching is very much more about job preformance nowadays than actual interest in seeing students succeed. If teachers can score a higher class passing average overall by neglecting the one or two black kids in the class they'll do it. See the value of an all-Black school yet? If teachers don't give a crap, the students will develop feelings of "the world is not what I expected, I don't belong!" hopelessness and become more suspectible to the ills of being black in a predominantly white society- guns, drugs, trouble-making behaviour. See it's in everyone's best interest, not just blacks, to at least show some empathy for the most invisible minority in academia.

 

[Glen]

^ "Not my problem anyone"? Sadly this already exists the way schools currently are. Teachers tend to invest as little effort as they can in ensuring the black students keep up with everyone else. Teaching is very much more about job preformance nowadays than actual interest in seeing students succeed. If teachers can score a higher class passing average overall by neglecting the one or two black kids in the class they'll do it

That is absurd. Would you care to back up those remarks?

 

[khris]

Community Ponders The Reality Of Black-Focused Schools
Thursday November 8, 2007
CityNews.ca Staff


Ontarians vehemently expressed their discontent when John Tory's Conservatives put forth the idea of funding faith based schools during the recent election. Tory eventually realized that he had made a terrible mistake and tried to backtrack from the disastrous idea, but by then the damage was done, and voters made sure to remind him when they cast their ballots firmly in favour of the Liberals. And now another controversial idea regarding public schooling has emerged in Toronto.

The issue of bringing black-focused schools to the city first arose in 1995, but now it's back and as expected, it's dividing community members. On Thursday night, the city hosted the first of two public meetings to discuss the controversial idea.

Some think it's a plan that could potentially turn the clock back to the racial segregation of the 50s, but others contend it's a step forward in the right direction.

Both sides expressed their passionate opinions on Thursday at North Albion Collegiate.

"I don't want segregation," one attendee wailed. "It brings me to tears! No! No! No! No! I don't want to be segregated!"

Andrew Murphy, who supports the plan, believes it would give young black students a better chance to succeed.

"There is a disproportionate amount of black students who are failing in the system, who are not only failing academically but socially as well."

Community members were asked to reflect on whether they supported an Afro-centric alternative school, and what the Toronto District School Board should consider in establishing such a school.

Supporters say that the proposal would give black students an increased sense of identity and help curb dropout rates.

The black-focused schools would be in the city's east, west and south ends and would highlight black history and employ more black teachers and mentors.

But students like Stephanie Lynch are still troubled with the prospect of black-only schooling.

"Black people fought for a very long time to just go to school with someone for a different race, to sit beside someone on a bus of a different race. And now it's like they're taking us away from that," she concludes.

A second public meeting will be held at 7pm on Monday at Northview Heights Secondary School.

Source with Video

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

I have read studies where teachers hold very low expectations of their black male students, meaning that poor school work or lack of involvement in the class activities from the black kids isn't challenged by the teachers, as much as they'd challenge and encourage the other kids. This might be total BS and certainly doesn't justify black only schools (perhaps better teacher training?), but it's something I've heard brought up.

IMO, there's more to this than poverty = poor school performance. Many of our greatest business, academic and cultural leaders such as Ed Mirvish grew up in poverty. What has changed IMO, is a breakdown of the family unit and lack of respect for one's self and one's parents. I remember an interview with Michael Lee-Chin who said his parents kept him strictly in line, and that he knew that if he did anything wrong he would be disrespecting his parents, family and himself. Could you imagine a newly fatherless, 15 year old Ed Mirvish getting into trouble, his mother would have reigned him in so quickly, and he would have been shamed by his community and family.

Also, I think a total lack of life career goals beyond utopian millionaire jobs in entertainment or sports haunts the black community.

If this is true, then isn't there a problem with teachers that needs to be addressed?

 

[DENTROBATE54]

Teachers tend to invest as little effort as they can in ensuring the black students keep up with everyone else.

If teachers can score a higher class passing average overall by neglecting the one or two black kids in the class they'll do it

That is absurd. Would you care to back up those remarks?

I don't have statistical proof, I'm only going by what my black friends have told me. I've witnessed many instances of seemingly prejudice behaviour like teachers ignoring raised hands, not addressing questions that came from black students ("I'll speak to you after class"), which of course amounts to nothing. All I'm saying is when you have several ethnicities in the classroom, subliminally teachers can pick their favorites. How can the TDSB or greater society rule out teacher bias as a factor for poor academic preformance among blacks if we don't at least try? Again special schools exist for other minority groups on the basis of language, faith and sexual orientation. Yes, this would be racial but instead of thinking of it as segregation, think of it as accomadation, of the status-quo no longer neglecting black social issues !

 

[khris]

Second Meeting Reheats Debate Over Black-Focused Schools
Monday November 12, 2007
CityNews.ca Staff

Round two of a fiery debate on black-focused schools exploded in anger Monday night, as parents, students and community members on both sides of the proposal exchanged ideas, and verbal jabs at Northview Secondary School.

The public debates are a response to a proposal to create African-Canadian focused schools, which in turn is a response to growing dropout rates among the GTA's black communities.

The Toronto District School Board says more than half of black male teens at public schools haven't earned the 16 credits required by the end of Grade 10. That's why some parents say black-focused schools are an alternative that could help turn that number around.

"There is something happening within our learning environment that is causing our children to fail," said Elijah-Marie Donaldson, who spoke out in favour of the schools.

"I'm not saying that the system as it is works, it doesn't," countered Neville McAnuff, an opponent of the idea. "But I think it's about time we stopped using rhetoric, got down to business and fixed the current schools."

Trustees from the school board as well as other staff will prepare a report with the feedback received from both meetings with the results to be released later in November.

Source

 

[Admiral Beez]

Can we once and for all stop calling the proposal "African" or "Afri" based schooling?! The proposal should be called Black-based schooling.

Africa is a big place. An African-based school would have to include those from Egypt, Libya, Morroco, Madagascar, and all the other places in Africa where few black people live. Egypt was the centre of African civilization for thousands of years, and surely must be a foundation for some of any African based schooling program.

If I was an African from a non-black area of the continent, I would certainly feel somewhat annoyed and forgotten that the term African-Canadian only applies to those of dark colour from sub-saharan Africa.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

Wow the system's messed up. Has anyone ever considered the special circumstances around why some blacks underachieve? I bet this study neglects the number of new immigrants who come here with credits from their countries-of-origin only to be told they have to take the associated subjects again here. Again this debate is ridiculous. We can have alternative schools for Muslims, Catholics, Jews, homosexuals and ESLs but anything to help out blacks is abominable? Seriously, yes their skin colour unites them but if the message is to unite communities I don't really see what the problem is. Anyone is free to attend wherever they choose but if the public school system fails them it's at least good to know they'll have an option B that doesn't degenerate into negative stereotypical behaviour.

 

[Disparishun]

We can have alternative schools for Muslims, Catholics, Jews, homosexuals and ESLs but anything to help out blacks is abominable?

Actually, Ontario just spoke up very loudly to say that its majority did, indeed, consider the idea of publicly-funded alternative schools for Muslims or for Jews to be abominable.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Wow the system's messed up. Has anyone ever considered the special circumstances around why some blacks underachieve? I bet this study neglects the number of new immigrants who come here with credits from their countries-of-origin only to be told they have to take the associated subjects again here.

But these are two completely separate issues. First of all, we need to determine if blacks from the Carribbean (or of parents born there) are more or less likely to underacheive than blacks from Africa. There's a huge cultural divide there that needs to be looked at. One of my friends from college is a Muslim from Ethiopia, who shares nothing but a similarity of skin colour with someone from Jamaica, for instance. Any challenges his kids face in school would not be the same as those faced by the children of Jamaican immigrants.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

Wow the system's messed up. Has anyone ever considered the special circumstances around why some blacks underachieve? I bet this study neglects the number of new immigrants who come here with credits from their countries-of-origin only to be told they have to take the associated subjects again here. Again this debate is ridiculous. We can have alternative schools for Muslims, Catholics, Jews, homosexuals and ESLs but anything to help out blacks is abominable? Seriously, yes their skin colour unites them but if the message is to unite communities I don't really see what the problem is. Anyone is free to attend wherever they choose but if the public school system fails them it's at least good to know they'll have an option B that doesn't degenerate into negative stereotypical behaviour.

just because they exist, does that make them right? any school that separates based on religion, race, sex and sexual orientation is not good for society or social skills. sometimes the only social interaction one can have at that age is at school. if you make options of separation available, it most likely won't be the students choice to attend such a school, but the parents forceful wish.

just proposing such an idea that black students have to be in separate schools or else they will end up as failures is a horrible stance. there are going to be alot of black kids with low self esteem thanks to ignorant adults who think they have all the answers.

 

[Zephyr]

I really hope that this does not bog down the entire City of Toronto into a massive racial debate. Many of the major American cities around Toronto (such as Detroit or Buffalo) seem to never be able to get anything done because it seems like almost every city discussion or plan always devolves into a debate about race (ie. black vs. white). I'd really hate to see Toronto fall into this pit... it would hurt the city's image, and it would do no good for the development of the city.

Thank you. This expresses my view precisely.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

Actually, Ontario just spoke up very loudly to say that its majority did, indeed, consider the idea of publicly-funded alternative schools for Muslims or for Jews to be abominable.

True but the gov't already subsidizes school fees and/or offers parents tax credits to help pay for privately-funded schools. These schools also exist cause the ethnicity group involved comes together as a community to assist in any way they can.

First of all, we need to determine if blacks from the Carribbean (or of parents born there) are more or less likely to underacheive than blacks from Africa. There's a huge cultural divide there that needs to be looked at.

How is that any less prejudical than opening an Afrocentric public school? Instead of racial profiling you'd be profiling by nationality, painting one sub-group less academically inclined than the other.

sometimes the only social interaction one can have at that age is at school.

Just because you put multiethnics in the same school doesn't mean they'll interact socially with eachother. It's commonplace to find at lunch time in any interurban high school cafeteria the whites sitting among themselves, orientals amongst themselves, blacks amongst themselves, hispanics amongst themselves, etc. Tokenism occurs but rarely full-blown integration and often the token is the subject of ridicule among his/her same-race schoolmates.

if you make options of separation available, it most likely won't be the students choice to attend such a school, but the parents forceful wish.

As opposed to what? If a free choice is made where black underachievers can turn around their grades by escaping the polarizing affects of the public system and in turn be surrounded by like-minded individuals (not slackers who've given up and are just at school to bide time) who'll get the one-one support and motivation they might've not recieved before, why wouldn't they jump at the oppurtunity? It's better to try and fail, then to never try at all!

just proposing such an idea that black students have to be in separate schools or else they will end up as failures is a horrible stance. there are going to be alot of black kids with low self esteem thanks to ignorant adults who think they have all the answers.

No one is suggesting that. It's an alternative to what might befall youth if they drop-out of the current system. A social safety blanket if you will. It's lack of interest in the welfare of black youth that'll develop into self-esteem issues and a desire to lash out on the society that failed them.

 

[rpgr]

Yeah,yeah, all peachy keen but in the end, what does Gr. 1-8 have to do where the problems really are? Look, studies show that yes, blacks do drop-out more... in HIGH SCHOOL. That means Gr. 9-12. Likewise current "kiddie" school does very little to help prep for high school in general. What do they hope to accomplish by making a seperate school? The kids still need to integrate into the status quo system. The current curriculum still puts more emphasis on math, technology, english and science. Teaching black history isn't going to improve marks in the other places.

In the end it's a combination of things that make up the problem. Having a seperate school for blacks at the grade school level doesn't even begin to address the social problems which start at home, mostly on the tele...

Fact, teachers like giving attention to good students, it's easy. It feels rewarding. Hell, I hate trying to teach my mom tech stuff. It just does not register with her. It's not rewarding and I repeat the same lessons over and over again. Unless she tries herself I just pretty much give-up.

The problem in kids today (damn, just typing that makes me feel old ><) is that we pamper them too much. You can't fail, if you fail we will massage the rules till you succeed. I laugh at the suggestion that my cousin is going to be a lawyer. The guys flunking left and right. His english marks are terrible but his parents "support" him fully. They believe he can't fail. In general he's miserable trying to live up to expectations (study something good, become rich) when all he wants to do is go pick up girls.

On the other hand, my other cousin who looked up to me when he was a kid and I sorta teased a lot is much happier. As a kid, his marks kinda sucked. He pretty much was a mediocre student. I told him straight out, "If you go to study to be a professional as you are, your gonna fail out". Instead my advice to him was "Your good at art, really good, you love it. Go for it". So now he's studying art and computer animation when his parents rolled their eyes at the suggestion. He's doing well, he'll graduate and he's happy doing what he's doing.

If he wants to study something else later on, he'll do well because it is something he wants to do, not because of hyped up expectations.

Even if you create "black centered" schooling, it won't fix the underlying problems. What's more attractive? A multimillionaire basketball star or a computer engineer?

Fact is everyone wants to be rich with the least amount of time and effort. Fact is (racial) genetics play a role. Blacks tend to be bigger, stronger, faster. Orientals tend to be smaller. Orientals pretty much grow up knowing they won't match blacks in the physical department. Easiest way for them to eek out the money/survival is at a desk/whitecollar job.

In any case I've rambled too long now and it's such a complecated issue that I could write a 15 page report (which I have done on a similar subject in U) so I'll just end it here and grab some lunch

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

re: DENTROBATE54

True but the gov't already subsidizes school fees and/or offers parents tax credits to help pay for privately-funded schools. These schools also exist cause the ethnicity group involved comes together as a community to assist in any way they can.

funny you mention that, i had a long conversation with a muslim who sends his kids to a private religious school. in the end, i discovered that he didn't want the government to fund islamic schools because he didn't want "bad" "poor" people from the public system to enroll in the school where his children go. he went so far to suggest that this is a christian country and things should stay the same to defend his point.

Just because you put multiethnics in the same school doesn't mean they'll interact socially with eachother. It's commonplace to find at lunch time in any interurban high school cafeteria the whites sitting among themselves, orientals amongst themselves, blacks amongst themselves, hispanics amongst themselves, etc. Tokenism occurs but rarely full-blown integration and often the token is the subject of ridicule among his/her same-race schoolmates.

so if ethnic interaction isn't working, assumed by what you said, the solution is to remove it completely? if laws can't prevent crime from happening, then we should abandon law?

As opposed to what? If a free choice is made where black underachievers can turn around their grades by escaping the polarizing affects of the public system and in turn be surrounded by like-minded individuals (not slackers who've given up and are just at school to bide time) who'll get the one-one support and motivation they might've not recieved before, why wouldn't they jump at the oppurtunity? It's better to try and fail, then to never try at all!

what makes you think that separating skin colors will make the situation better? "It's better to try and fail, then to never try at all!" <---really?. trying to catch a bullet with ones teeth and failing is not better than not trying at all. sometimes trying makes things worse. sometimes it's best not to try at all.

No one is suggesting that. It's an alternative to what might befall youth if they drop-out of the current system. A social safety blanket if you will. It's lack of interest in the welfare of black youth that'll develop into self-esteem issues and a desire to lash out on the society that failed them.

again, what makes you think this is a race issue? i was an underachiever in elementary school. was it a race issue? no, there were other factors at play. i changed schools and got better grades.



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