TDSB Ponders Black-Focused Schools

[khris]

Toronto School Board Ponders Black-Focused Schools
Tuesday November 6, 2007
CityNews.ca Staff
Is it segregation or is it a solution?

The Toronto District School Board (TDSB) is looking at the controversial idea of black-focused schools again, an idea that's been rejected in the past, as some of its members complain that the education system is failing students of colour.

At least one may be opened as early as next fall if the TDSB goes ahead with the proposal. A report is being prepared on how such a facility would work in the context of the public board, and two community meetings are planned over the next week to discuss the pros and cons.

The hypothetical African-centred alternative school would run from junior kindergarten to Grade 8 and aside from highlighting black history and achievements would also employ more black teachers and mentors. Such schools already exist in U.S. cities including Detroit and Washington, and though there aren't any black-focused schools in Ontario yet there is a grade school and high school for First Nations students and an alternative high school for gay and lesbian students.

But while some school board members and community leaders believe the schools would be a good idea to help address the lower graduation rates among black students, others aren't too crazy about the idea, warning it amounts to segregation. Premier Dalton McGuinty appeared opposed to the idea when it was proposed by more than 500 parents and students in 2005 - he said at the time he preferred the idea of bringing various cultures together in schools instead of separating them.

The concept was first tabled more than a decade ago, in 1995, by the province's Royal Commission on Learning.

Parents have reportedly asked for three schools in the city's east, west and south ends. Meetings to discuss the idea will take place Thursday, November 8 at 7pm at North Albion Collegiate at Kipling and Finch Aves., and then on Monday, November 12 at 7pm at Northview Heights Secondary School on Finch Ave.

Source

 

[khris]

I think this is a horrible idea personally. Segregation I think will only cause more problems to arise.
I also think the more we refer to ourselves as a colour, the longer it will take racism to go away. Although it's never probably going to go away, but we really need to stop referring to people as a colour.
If you were to label a a school as an all white school and only allow those of European heritage, there would be outrage, and it would be deemed racist. I don't care about the reasons behind having an all black school, I'm just looking at it at face value. It should not be tolerated, and it should not happen in this country just because it works in the US.

 

[billonlogan]

what's next...
a school for muslims students only, or oriental students, what about a school for gay students only... or everyone else who is hard done by. I thought we already has this debate and it was thouroughly quashed.

 

[rpgr]

This is definately the wrong approach to combating the problems students face.

Being Black has very little to no difference to how well they do in school. Being poor does. Poor/poverty stricken students have the same challenges that many blacks have. It's just a fact that a lot of blacks are also poor that it makes things seem like a racial issue when it isn't.

I will admit there are some good ideas though. Increase the number of minority teachers in the school. Increase community involvement. Those are good ideas that can be applied.

Besides that, it would be hypocritical of people to say "no" to faith based schools but "yes" to race based schools. IMO they are only a shade apart in difference.

 

[Admiral Beez]

This does sound like a misguided idea. What exactly is a black school program supposed to be about anyway? What does someone from Jamaica have in common with someone from Sudan, a Francophone from Haiti, a Muslim from Nigeria or an Ethiopian Jew? Except for the colour of their skin, which even that can vary greatly from one part of Africa to another, Canadians of African descent can have little in common with regards to culture, language, customs, ideas on family and religion, etc.

This will turn into a Safe Schools Act dumping zone, with principals quickly telling every troubled black kid in their school that there's a school made just for them.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Being Black has very little to no difference to how well they do in school.

I have read studies where teachers hold very low expectations of their black male students, meaning that poor school work or lack of involvement in the class activities from the black kids isn't challenged by the teachers, as much as they'd challenge and encourage the other kids. This might be total BS and certainly doesn't justify black only schools (perhaps better teacher training?), but it's something I've heard brought up.

IMO, there's more to this than poverty = poor school performance. Many of our greatest business, academic and cultural leaders such as Ed Mirvish grew up in poverty. What has changed IMO, is a breakdown of the family unit and lack of respect for one's self and one's parents. I remember an interview with Michael Lee-Chin who said his parents kept him strictly in line, and that he knew that if he did anything wrong he would be disrespecting his parents, family and himself. Could you imagine a newly fatherless, 15 year old Ed Mirvish getting into trouble, his mother would have reigned him in so quickly, and he would have been shamed by his community and family.

Also, I think a total lack of life career goals beyond utopian millionaire jobs in entertainment or sports haunts the black community.

 

[khris]

what's next...
a school for muslims students only, or oriental students, what about a school for gay students only... or everyone else who is hard done by.

Such schools already exist in U.S. cities including Detroit and Washington, and though there aren't any black-focused schools in Ontario yet there is a grade school and high school for First Nations students and an alternative high school for gay and lesbian students.

Did you read the whole article?

http://schools.tdsb.on.ca/triangle/
http://www.nnec.on.ca/pffnhs/

 

[rpgr]

I have read studies where teachers hold very low expectations of their black male students, meaning that poor school work or lack of involvement in the class activities from the black kids isn't challenged by the teachers, as much as they'd challenge and encourage the other kids. This might be total BS and certainly doesn't justify black only schools (perhaps better teacher training?), but it's something I've heard brought up.

IMO, there's more to this than poverty = poor school performance. Many of our greatest business, academic and cultural leaders such as Ed Mirvish grew up in poverty. What has changed IMO, is a breakdown of the family unit and lack of respect for one's self and one's parents. I remember an interview with Michael Lee-Chin who said his parents kept him strictly in line, and that he knew that if he did anything wrong he would be disrespecting his parents, family and himself. Could you imagine a newly fatherless, 15 year old Ed Mirvish getting into trouble, his mother would have reigned him in so quickly, and he would have been shamed by his community and family.

Also, I think a total lack of life career goals beyond utopian millionaire jobs in entertainment or sports haunts the black community.

Well here's the thing. When Blacks are disproportionate in the income ratio then it will "seem" like a black thing. Inner city youth (lets talk US as it's much more pronounced and more studies have been done there) regardless of race all face the same problems.

Your last line also highlights the reasons "why" they feel they don't need to do better. It's not just being "poor" but the emergent culture of the poor in these areas. In a way it is no different from ole honest Ed may his soul rest in peace, it's a rags to riches story.

Yet the main difference is the approach. It used to be work hard, save, open your own business that was glorified, now it's play a sport, do a song, whatever.

I do whole-heartedly agree with the statement about "Blacks" being totally different. The skin color is just an arbitrary designation. Just as me, a Chinese born Asian would never understand the Filipino born Asian.

To other observers, we're both slant eyes but there are major differences.

Yes we all did read the whole article. I realize there are schools based on Gays, Christians, Jews, etc. That's not the point though. We went through this during the election and agreed that in general, it's a bad idea, lets not repeat that and move on to new territory or do you want me to put QED after all my thoughts?

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

if a school is in an area where there is a large population of students whose parents are immigrants from country "A", why not offer a "A" culture class?

you don't need to create a whole separate school. this proposal will do more harm that good. even the mention of this proposal probably has some negative effect.

 

[rpgr]

if a school is in an area where there is a large population of students whose parents are immigrants from country "A", why not offer a "A" culture class?

you don't need to create a whole separate school. this proposal will do more harm that good. even the mention of this proposal probably has some negative effect.

That i can agree on.

I mean really? Math is math, English isn't ebonics, computers as far as I know don't discriminate against anybody. The only classes you could justify differences on are history and other social science studies. Even then, all the hand-holding does nothing to prepare you for standardized testing in High School or university and college where absolutely no hand holding is available.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

what's next...
a school for muslims students only, or oriental students, what about a school for gay students only... or everyone else who is hard done by.

Believe it or not, such schools already exist. Toronto universities have a larger Asian population in proportion to Whites and Blacks combined. And how on earth could one organize a gays-only school? Not to offend anyone but statistically Blacks do perform at a lower standard than other ethnicities. But I can understand the reasoning behind it. If not alot is expected of you, why bother? Blacks just aren't getting the one-on-one attention from teachers the white and Asian students get and are surrounded by Eurocentric curricula. I remember back in high school they tried to organize a 12th grade class which only accepted Black students and would offer a African Diaspora class but only a few students were interested, despite my school being one-third Black students, so they scrapped it.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

That i can agree on.

I mean really? Math is math, English isn't ebonics, computers as far as I know don't discriminate against anybody. The only classes you could justify differences on are history and other social science studies. Even then, all the hand-holding does nothing to prepare you for standardized testing in High School or university and college where absolutely no hand holding is available.

math is math, english is english, science is science, etc. exactly.

the issue here is history and i think there is a good chance to address that without the need for a separate school. there is alot of interesting history that a culture class can address and stimulate interest. this can be a class available to everyone and has serious academic basis.


to say that black schools will solve the problems students face is poor analysis. there are soo many factors to look at.

 

[rpgr]

Believe it or not, such schools already exist. Toronto universities have a larger Asian population in proportion to Whites and Blacks combined. And how on earth could one organize a gays-only school? Not to offend anyone but statistically Blacks do perform at a lower standard than other ethnicities. But I can understand the reasoning behind it. If not alot is expected of you, why bother? Blacks just aren't getting the one-on-one attention from teachers the white and Asian students get and are surrounded by Eurocentric curricula. I remember back in high school they tried to organize a 12th grade class which only accepted Black students and would offer a African Diaspora class but only a few students were interested, despite my school being one-third Black students, so they scrapped it.

Great! Except other studies have shown that it is students who get the extra attention are the ones that do worst as they feel they "are stupid".

Once again I'll accertain it. Blacks are improportioantely on the poor side. The "pop culture" that surrounds them don't enforce a good work ethic. It's not somerthing segregated schooling can fix.

You guys all love using Asians (Ortientals) because of stereotypes. Yet the fact is, current orientals, males predominately do not do well in school. See the other studies launched this past week.

The problem with the study cited in the articles is that is excludes factors outside of the teacher student interaction.

 

[King of Kensington]

This has come up before and has gone nowhere.

Poverty explains a significant amount of Black under-performance but it doesn't explain everything. Studies have shown that middle class Blacks often do worse than poor whites, largely due to expectations and the white middle class unconscious bias of teachers.

That being said I think this is a horrible idea and won't help Black youth at all.

 

[Hydrogen]

Once again I'll accertain it. Blacks are improportioantely on the poor side. The "pop culture" that surrounds them don't enforce a good work ethic. It's not somerthing segregated schooling can fix.

You guys all love using Asians (Ortientals) because of stereotypes. Yet the fact is, current orientals, males predominately do not do well in school. See the other studies launched this past week.

One can assume that there are a whole bunch of stereotypes at work here. Asia is a geographic region from which there are many cultural populations. The same would go for the designation of "black;" excessive emphasis on skin colour or racial features easily blinds people from the more subtle qualities of localized culture and individual difference. The irony is that the desire to create "black" schools is an idea built upon 19th century racial stereotyping, and a 1960's reinterpretation of those ideas. It's hard to see how it could be helpful.