September 11th: Real or Fraud?

[GenerationW]

the freedom movement and the 9/11 movement are growing.

And they've done a fine job of getting Obama to show his Hawaii birth certificate........even though most of them still don't believe him.

 

[Kamuix]

Well look I don't make a big deal over the whole birth certificate issue. Like let's say when Obama got into office he went and did everything he said he was going to do like pull out of the illegal wars, lower taxes rather then raising them, not give our tax dollars to big corporations on wall-street, give us our freedoms back rather then taking even more freedoms then bush did, quit putting us even further into debt, he's actually been spending more money then bush in the 2 years he has been in office. Well in this case I wouldn't really care where he was born as long as he was doing what was in the best interest of the average american. The birth certificate thing is almost irrelevant other then it being another example of fraud.

I admire anyone here who's at-least willing to actually discuss the topic rather then shooting me down with generalizations in a way to try and make me look completely crazy. But you have to admit to yourselves at some point that it's pretty fishy that Obama not only went back on all of his promises but that he excelerated the agenda that was happening under george bush, and yet still he remains more popular and liked then bush, however his approval ratings have fallen to a record low. Just saying.. and that's just ONE thing.

 

[gristle]

I get that it's just my opinion. When you argue I've pointed out so many things that you do that contradict what you accuse me of doing for example you just accused me of making assumptions when you and some others constantly make assumptions. Also you guys treat me as if I'm the only one in the world who thinks this. You don't seem to be interested in discussing it so much as shooting me down at all costs to make me look as foolish as possible as if to have some sort of fear of discussing the topic. Also whenever I discuss the mind and how you argue etc. you simply won't go there. you've consistently generalized overtop of points I've made and i've caught you ESPECIALLY you doing it over and over. So it's clear that you're not interested in discussing so much as making me look foolish which is exactly what people who end up being in denial about something do. So that's your choice not mine.

Kamuix, if you know that it's merely your opinion, why then do you conflate your opinion with a claim for truth? The two are are exceedingly different. The only way that the two can appear in a sentence together is when we say that: "it is a truth when we say that Kamuix holds unfounded opinions about conspiracies for which he has no proof or verifiable evidence." The simple points are that you have no proof of the conspiracies you assert are real, and you possess only an opinion regarding what you believe is a conspiracy. In an attempt to deflect the utter absence of any support for your position, you go on about the future and how things will change at some unspecified point. But as you merely have just an opinion - as you have admitted - and nothing more, you once again have zero when making predictions about what will happen in the future.

Sadly, you then cling to a view that everyone else is unable to share in your conspiratorial fantasies, and you accuse them of being closed-minded because they don't share your opinion. In fact, there is nothing that requires any other person to share the same subjective and unfounded opinions that you choose to entertain. The best that can be concluded from all of this is that you don't grasp the concept of truth, don't possess information indicating any evident truths, hold unfounded opinions, make empty claims of their future veracity, and disparage others who don't share in your unsupported opinions. In common parlance, that would suggest that you have nothing but your own baseless opinion.

At least its good to see that all you are offering is just your opinion and nothing more. Of course, that being said, an opinion is not, nor should it ever be confused with, the existence of a conspiracy. That would require actual, verifiable evidence - and you have none.

 

[Kamuix]

Ok this is what I mean, I swear you cannot type one sentence without contradicting yourself.

 

[gristle]

Kamuix, we can now add "contradict" to the long list of words that you do not comprehend.

And still no evidence to support your conspiracy claims.

 

[gristle]

I get that it's just my opinion.

These are your words Kamuix.

 

[Kamuix]

I've caught you contradicting yourself at-least 10 times so don't even get me started on you again you.. narrow-minded... easily lead.. consciously unaware.. believe everything the establishment tells you.. doesn't understand psychology at all.. attacks anything controversial simply because it's not public opinion. If i can evaluate the way your mind works and explain it in just a few paragraphs which I did(and don't make me go back and get it) then it can't be that complicated.

Also people also will notice that whenever I brought up anything to do with psychology(how your narrow mind works etc..) you would never address it or discuss it so it's easy for me to know what I'm talking about seeing as you proved to know nothing after I would explain things clearly. All you can say are narrow-minded things that you cannot back with depth. Can somebody with a-little depth to their personality make a post? I hope Toronto isn't full of people like this But I'm smart enough to know that they're are people like that in every town/city and that where you live obviously doesn't have an indication of those sorts of things.

Now back on topic.. Remember their are now just over 1200 Architects and Engineers for 9/11 truth. Are all these people coincidentally paranoid too there Grissie?

These are your words Kamuix.

Yes and you have your opinion on the subject, so your point is?..

 

[gabe]

"Conspiracy theorists who are claiming that we really didn't kill Bin Laden must be reminded that they didn't think he committed the crime in the first place. Come on nut-jobs, keep your bullsh*t straight. The towers were brought down in a controlled demolition by George W. Bush to distract attention from Hawaii where CIA Operatives were planting phoney birth records so that a Kenyan named Obama could someday rise to power to pretend to take out the guy that we pretended took out the towers."
- Bill Maher's New Rules - "Real Time With Bill Maher" (HBO), May 6, 2011.

God Bless Bill Maher I got tickets to see his stand up at Massey Hall in September

 

[gristle]

I've caught you contradicting yourself at-least 10 times so don't even get me started on you again you..

Again Kamuix, prove your assertions. You can comb through this thread all you want and you won't find what you claim.

But again, let's be clear, the purpose of this type of claim is to take focus off your complete failure to back up your conspiracy assertions with actual verifiable evidence. That leaves you with nothing more than to post swill - such as:

. If i can evaluate the way your mind works and explain it in just a few paragraphs which I did(and don't make me go back and get it) then it can't be that complicated.

Once again, you make a claim you can't support. As you have no idea what I am thinking, you can't prove your simplistic and empty assertion. But as noted, such stupidity is carried out as a means of you avoiding the well-illustrated fact that you have no evidence whatsoever to support your conspiracy claims, and that obviously you don't comprehend what evidence is.

Also people also will notice that whenever I brought up anything to do with psychology(how your narrow mind works etc..) you would never address it or discuss it so it's easy for me to know what I'm talking about seeing as you proved to know nothing after I would explain things clearly. All you can say are narrow-minded things that you cannot back with depth.

Actually Kamuix, you have not brought anything up regarding psychology. You made vague allusions to having some supposed knowledge of the topic, but this has not been at all supported by what you have written here. In other words - so you are clear on the matter - I have not responded to your musings on psychology because you know nothing about psychology. There is nothing to respond to. Just as you have not provided any evidence regarding your conspiracy claims - there is nothing to respond to because you have no verifiable evidence to show. Had you the supposed knowledge of psychology that you claim here, your obvious refusal or incapacity to differentiate your opinion from fact should have been ringing all kinds of emergency bells for you. But of course that's not happening.

you would never address it or discuss it so it's easy for me to know what I'm talking about seeing as you proved to know nothing after I would explain things clearly.

Other than you possessing poor writing skills, you clearly do not possess any apparent depth in the subject of psychology. Nor do you have any verifiable evidence regarding your conspiracy claims. You have been asked, requested and challenged to back up these claims over and over again. You have not. You've admitted nothing more than an opinion, and even that is not supported by facts or evidence. You exhibit unfounded paranoia and then suggest that others have psychological issues. That is quite laughable Kamuix.

Now back on topic.. Remember their are now just over 1200 Architects and Engineers for 9/11 truth. Are all these people coincidentally par

You can provide your source. If you do, just how sure are you about the supposed signatories?

Yes and you have your opinion on the subject, so your point is?..

My point is that you have no substantive corroborating evidence of any actual conspiracy. My point is that even your opinions on conspiracy subjects are unsupported by verifiable evidence or facts. My point is that you make unsupported conspiracy assertions, whinge endlessly about open-mindedness and fail to provide actual supporting evidence when going on ad nauseam about your paranoid conspiratorial fears. Is that clear enough for you?

 

[Kamuix]

Your narrow minded and manipulative way of arguing isn't fooling anyone anymore don't make me go back and start quoting you because you keep generalizing on-top of old points and people see that.. I think deep down you don't quite believe what you're trying to convince yourself haha. It's actually kind of funny to watch you try and convince yourself that you are making good points.

Also I'm going to post some youtube links because the messages in these documentaries are important. So for your information, I am not offering these documentaries as evidence because the kind of evidence you want is evidence that the establishment will agree with. like for example a phony 9/11 commission report put out by the government. To you Grissie if the mainstream media calls something evidence, then to you it's evidence. Other than that your narrow mind cannot perceive beyond what your government tells you through the media and propaganda. after all you cannot even discuss anything all you can do is manipulate me and trash me but it gets funny to watch after awhile.

Seriously anyone who's interested I ask you to watch this documentary and give it some thought: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZtX32sKVE

Sure it's off topic but this whole discussion had become about conspiracies in general anyways. Besides you guys try and pull the whole "Oh well if it's a youtube link then that means it's not evidence and that indicates that you're a paranoid conspiracy theorist!"

 

[gristle]

Your narrow minded and manipulative way of arguing isn't fooling anyone anymore don't make me go back and start quoting you because you keep generalizing on-top of old points and people see that.. I think deep down you don't quite believe what you're trying to convince yourself haha. It's actually kind of funny to watch you try and convince yourself that you are making good points.

Yeah, I'm making you go back and cite me. Go for it. Do it. I challenge you Kamuix. Obviously you have no evidence to support your empty claims of conspiracy, so you go back and dig up whatever it is that you think will help your supposed case. I'll just shoot it down as usual. As for what you think, you are, of course, wrong. Yet again, what you present is another limp attempt to deflect from the fact that you have nothing substantive to offer here. You have no evidence to support your claims. None.

Also I'm going to post some youtube links because the messages in these documentaries are important. So for your information, I am not offering these documentaries as evidence because the kind of evidence you want is evidence that the establishment will agree with

Of course, the inevitable youtube link. And why should you even try to find evidence when you can sell a mere message. That's what advertisers do, isn't it Kamuix? Are you trying to sell something here? The point is that you have no actual verifiable evidence to support your claims. You're an advertiser for your favourite youtube shows. It's clear that you don't comprehend what verifiable evidence is.

To you Grissie if the mainstream media calls something evidence, then to you it's evidence. Other than that your narrow mind cannot perceive beyond what your government tells you through the media and propaganda. after all you cannot even discuss anything all you can do is manipulate me and trash me but it gets funny to watch after awhile.

To you Kamuix: the examination and verification of evidence isn't up to the media alone. At the same time, it's funny that you would slag one part of the media while pushing another (your youtube links and the zany cast of conspiracy-mongers). You haven't offered up a reason why they should be taken seriously - other than the fact that you are gullible enough to buy it all because it appeals to your paranoia. Maybe you should read up a little about propaganda. You know, inform yourself. That's be a risk for you, though.

Other than that your narrow mind cannot perceive beyond what your government tells you through the media and propaganda. after all you cannot even discuss anything all you can do is manipulate me and trash me but it gets funny to watch after awhile.

Actually Kamuix, throughout this thread I have not argued for any position. I have challenged you to produce evidence that supports your position of a government conspiracy as the prime cause of the events of 9/11. You have completely failed to do this. If you want to convince people of your position, you must present evidence. You have failed to do this over and over because you have no evidence. You want others to believe what you do. The trouble is that you can't make others believe what you believe. This upsets you. It makes you irrational. You resort to thin efforts to avoid the reality of your utter deficiency of necessary evidence to support your claim, and the skepticism that arises from your complete inability to furnish verifiable corroborating evidence.

I'm asking you for proof, and you call me narrow-minded. That's comical. You are comical.

Seriously anyone who's interested I ask you to watch this documentary and give it some thought

It's drivel. Why don't you step up to the plate Kamuix and offer up some real evidence? Cite your sources. Something science-based. Real investigative material that shows cause, sources, evidence, key players, rationales - you know, the stuff of facts. How about it Kamuix? Or are you going to squirt out another youtube link?

Sure it's off topic but ...

But then you'd have to be challenged to do more than to be vague.

Besides you guys try and pull the whole "Oh well if it's a youtube link then that means it's not evidence and that indicates that you're a paranoid conspiracy theorist!"

Actually Kamuix, you are most definitely not a "theorist' of any kind. You have not come close to setting out at constructing anything that comes close to a theory. Of course, you have no clue what a theory is, but that doesn't click with you. You're more in the category of gossip-monger. Employing the word "theory" greatly over-dignifies what you do here.

How about that evidence Kamuix? Got any to show, or are you going to finally admit you're empty on that count?

 

[Kamuix]

Your narrow minded and manipulative way of arguing isn't fooling anyone anymore don't make me go back and start quoting you because you keep generalizing on-top of old points and people see that.. I think deep down you don't quite believe what you're trying to convince yourself haha. It's actually kind of funny to watch you try and convince yourself that you are making good points.

Here's another thing to consider not that I think your narrow minds have the ability to be open minded: In history and currently most countries governments and politics propagandize their people to think what they want them to think.

Oh, and I have another question for the brainwashed: Why is that when Obama got into office, he went back on all his promises of change like bring the troops home, lower taxes, take away the corrupt regulations that kill small businesses and benefit big corporations, get rid of corrupt laws etc.. And continued the EXACT agenda that bush bush had? He sent more troops, added more wars, put in more regulations, raised taxes, added more corrupt laws, helped out his rich friends on wall-street etc..

Oh! but we're in Canada! Oh wait a minute.. we voted Stephen Harper back in who was giving big corporations tax breaks, adding regulations and doing other things that we're sending productive producers away from our counter.. Still don't get it? Our governments are owned by the same big corporations! Don't you ever wonder why even though presidents/PMs change up that things never seem to really change for the better? Other than technology, everything has been getting worse?

See this is what I mean, until you guys learn how to get past the fake reality that all the propaganda and media etc. lead you to believe, you'll never be able to get a grip on reality and you'll be stuck in this narrow-minded way of thinking. I'm sorry that 9/11 was staged but the quicker people wake up to the truth the quicker we can get rid of the power structure and the politicians who are responsible for this.

It makes it kind of hard for me to take the arguments seriously because even though you guys seem to be smart people, at some point you've become over-confident in yourselves when it comes to learning important things and expanding your minds. Don't get me wrong you're all smart, but it's not all about things like being smart or having a lot of money. You guys have given into a lot of corruption that has affected society is really bad ways and is only getting worse.

Here's another question: Why are all our personal freedoms being taken away from us? Something that our for fathers warned us about?

So go ahead keep believing everything the propaganda machine tells you... Believe that Osama was killed on May 1st after he had been reported dead almost 10 years ago then reported dead another times years later by other sources that are more reliable than our government.

EDIT: In the end, all I can do is help wake people up to the truth. And I'm never asking you to take my word for it. All I'm asking is that you be open-minded and do your own research before buying into the governments/corporations propaganda.

 

[wwwebster]

Also 1/3rd of the people here voted that they think 9/11 was an inside job...

38 Yes, 86 No, and 2,000 Active members who thought the question was too dumb to bother with.

 

[PinkLucy]

Stop with the facts. Kamuix doesn't like facts. Because facts aren't facts. They are all part of the propoganda machine. Unless they are facts from his trusted YouTube sources. Or something.

 

[doady]

38 Yes, 86 No, and 2,000 Active members who thought the question was too dumb to bother with.

There probably should have been a "WTF???" option.