Metrolinx: Sheppard East LRT (In Design)

[Rainforest]

It makes more sense to run mixed-traffic express buses on Sheppard east of Don Mills for the time being. And once there funding becomes available, extend Finch LRT all the way east and create a crosstown route on Finch.

 

[Leo_Chan]

It makes more sense to run mixed-traffic express buses on Sheppard east of Don Mills for the time being. And once there funding becomes available, extend Finch LRT all the way east and create a crosstown route on Finch.

That still doesn't resolve the stubway problem. It will basically only be an "express route" to Fairview Mall.

 

[Rainforest]

That still doesn't resolve the stubway problem. It will basically only be an "express route" to Fairview Mall.

IMO, the stubway is not a huge problem that requires an immediate solution. The stubway carries several times more riders than a bus connection could handle, and therefore is somewhat useful. East of Don Mills, the ridership drops quite a bit, thus a combination of local and express bus routes in mixed traffic is capable of handling it.

Meanwhile, Finch East is a very popular route, and once it got Rocket expresses, their ridership exceeded expectations. That kind of implies that attending Finch East before Sheppard is not a bad idea.

In 20 years or so, we can return to the Sheppard issue and either extend or convert the subway based on the ridership projections at that time.

 

[Steve X]

The intention of a subway was for people in the nearby corridors like Finch, Steeles and Ellesmere to take a north-south bus to Sheppard. Well, since everyone wants a seat (or the chance to get on) at Finch, the Sheppard subway wouldn't attract their attention. Right now they can run a 4-car TR train along Sheppard every 20-25 minutes and still be able to carry all the 85/190 riders.

 

[11th]

The intention of a subway was for people in the nearby corridors like Finch, Steeles and Ellesmere to take a north-south bus to Sheppard. Well, since everyone wants a seat (or the chance to get on) at Finch, the Sheppard subway wouldn't attract their attention. Right now they can run a 4-car TR train along Sheppard every 20-25 minutes and still be able to carry all the 85/190 riders.

For Sheppard to attract their attention, first, Yonge should be extended to Steeles, ceasing Finch role as a terminus, then extend Sheppard to Kennedy to intersect popular N-S Scarborough routes (24, 68, 43).

 

[Steve X]

For Sheppard to attract their attention, first, Yonge should be extended to Steeles, ceasing Finch role as a terminus, then extend Sheppard to Kennedy to intersect popular N-S Scarborough routes (24, 68, 43).

That would just increase the ridership on Yonge and leave no room for people coming in from Sheppard. People would more likely consider taking to it Eglinton Line instead. Also, streets like Birchmount and Pharmacy won't get a station.

 

[M II A II R II K]

And when the DRL is extended to Sheppard it will relieve Sheppard.

 

[micheal_can]

IMO, the stubway is not a huge problem that requires an immediate solution. The stubway carries several times more riders than a bus connection could handle, and therefore is somewhat useful. East of Don Mills, the ridership drops quite a bit, thus a combination of local and express bus routes in mixed traffic is capable of handling it.

Meanwhile, Finch East is a very popular route, and once it got Rocket expresses, their ridership exceeded expectations. That kind of implies that attending Finch East before Sheppard is not a bad idea.

In 20 years or so, we can return to the Sheppard issue and either extend or convert the subway based on the ridership projections at that time.

Once Line 1 extension is opened, the Rocket will become obsolete.

Leaving the Sheppard line East alone and not extending it would not be the worst thing, however, the west extension, at least to Downsview should be done. It would make the Finch LRT east of Finch West Station not needed.

 

[Rainforest]

Once Line 1 extension is opened, the Rocket will become obsolete.

No, Finch Rocket will remain in place, it will terminate at the Finch West station instead of going to York U.

Leaving the Sheppard line East alone and not extending it would not be the worst thing, however, the west extension, at least to Downsview should be done. It would make the Finch LRT east of Finch West Station not needed.

I don't like the idea of terminating Finch LRT at Keele permanently. If the riders traveling west to east have to transfer to one subway at Keele, then go to Sheppard, and transfer again, many will avoid that route altogether. I'd much prefer to see a continuous line on Finch.

Eventually, Sheppard should get at continuous line as well, but I am not sure if a subway, mini-subway, or advanced / express LRT is the best option. Time will tell. Therefore, I'm not sure if I would go for an extension to Downsview in the near term. If we have to change the vehicle type and the rail design later, then modifying a longer line will cost more.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Would having a 1 (or 2/3) stop extension of the Finch West LRT from Finch West Station to Sheppard West Station be possible? If this were to happen, it would probably be done when Line 4 is extended to Sheppard West since an underground station for the new terminus of the Finch West LRT would be preferred. What alignment would the small extension have though? A portal on Finch Ave West east for Keele and a portal on Allen Rd north of Sheppard Ave West with an at-grade LRT would probably be the best choice.

Does a Finch Crosstown LRT have more ridership potential than a full Sheppard Subway?

 

[micheal_can]

No, Finch Rocket will remain in place, it will terminate at the Finch West station instead of going to York U.

I don't like the idea of terminating Finch LRT at Keele permanently. If the riders traveling west to east have to transfer to one subway at Keele, then go to Sheppard, and transfer again, many will avoid that route altogether. I'd much prefer to see a continuous line on Finch.

Eventually, Sheppard should get at continuous line as well, but I am not sure if a subway, mini-subway, or advanced / express LRT is the best option. Time will tell. Therefore, I'm not sure if I would go for an extension to Downsview in the near term. If we have to change the vehicle type and the rail design later, then modifying a longer line will cost more.

I know the busway is staying.

Nothing is ever permanent in public transit.

We already have a Sheppard subway line in place. Why not make it more usable by connecting to the other side. I would suggest doing this first before connecting Keele to Finch as an LRT.

 

[11th]

That would just increase the ridership on Yonge and leave no room for people coming in from Sheppard. People would more likely consider taking to it Eglinton Line instead. Also, streets like Birchmount and Pharmacy won't get a station.

If given a choice between a fully-grade separated line 4 with enclosed stations , vs. at-grade ROW line 5 with sheltered stops, why would someone from northern Scarborough choose to take the latter?
As for the Pharmacy and Birchmount problem, Pharmacy (north) buses will probably terminate at the Victoria Park/Sheppard station, and Birchmount will likely get a station when they do decide to extend the line to Kennedy.

The success of 199 rocket (with it's limited stops at arterials) partially suggests the potential of feeding an line 4 extension in Scarborough with N-S bus routes. I say "partially", because it is unknown how much of the ridership's destination is along Finch and not to Finch station.

 

[BurlOak]

I don't like the idea of terminating Finch LRT at Keele permanently. If the riders traveling west to east have to transfer to one subway at Keele, then go to Sheppard, and transfer again, many will avoid that route altogether.

That's why Sheppard should be interlinked with Vaughan extension.
From Vaughan, go to downtown or Don Mills.
From Finch west, 1 transfer to downtown or Don Mills.

 

[micheal_can]

That's why Sheppard should be interlinked with Vaughan extension.
From Vaughan, go to downtown or Don Mills.
From Finch west, 1 transfer to downtown or Don Mills.

Oh God No!
Not interlining!

If you really want to do something worth doing with the western leg of the Sheppard line, send it to the Airport.

 

[Steve X]

I don't like the idea of terminating Finch LRT at Keele permanently. If the riders traveling west to east have to transfer to one subway at Keele, then go to Sheppard, and transfer again, many will avoid that route altogether. I'd much prefer to see a continuous line on Finch.

Eventually someone would propose that Finch should end at Finch Station. Finch West Station was never meant to be a terminal. It has side platforms.

Demand on the 36 Finch West bus is so local, it wouldn't matter to 70% of the riders. I don't see why a large amount of people would travel from Northern Etobicoke to Scarborough. TTC is splitting the 36 at Finch West in December because it would work. In fact with so many short trips, the 36 must be one of the best money making routes in the whole system.