innsertnamehere
Superstar
albeit a pretty big sale at that.
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Superstar
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- Joined
- Jan 13, 2008
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- St Lawrence Market Area
There is going to be a big discussion at the TTC Board in October on fares and Presto:
That staff be requested to report back, as planned, and in consultation with city fare equity staff, in October for a fulsome discussion on fare policy when PRESTO is in place and for when we remove legacy fare media (tokens etc.) and what the future for cash payments are including consideration of various fare options including:
i) fare by time of day
ii) 2 hour transfer
iii) Seniors fares by time of day, including $1 senior fares during off-peak hours
iv) Fare by distance
v) Concession policy overall as informed by Fare Equity Strategy
vi) Monthly pass versus daily/weekly/monthly capping
vii) Free regular transit fares for Wheel-Trans qualified passengers in addition to the visually impaired.
That staff continue discussion on a 2-hour transfer, with PRESTO and Metrolinx, to understand how that could be funded via savings in the PRESTO programme and in support of more regional fare integration.
That staff be requested to report back, as planned, and in consultation with city fare equity staff, in October for a fulsome discussion on fare policy when PRESTO is in place and for when we remove legacy fare media (tokens etc.) and what the future for cash payments are including consideration of various fare options including:
i) fare by time of day
ii) 2 hour transfer
iii) Seniors fares by time of day, including $1 senior fares during off-peak hours
iv) Fare by distance
v) Concession policy overall as informed by Fare Equity Strategy
vi) Monthly pass versus daily/weekly/monthly capping
vii) Free regular transit fares for Wheel-Trans qualified passengers in addition to the visually impaired.
That staff continue discussion on a 2-hour transfer, with PRESTO and Metrolinx, to understand how that could be funded via savings in the PRESTO programme and in support of more regional fare integration.
ehlow
Senior Member
Great. They really need to sort out things like the monthly pass/capping and transfers or 2 hour thing and checking POP without a paper receipt before Presto support spreads and more and more TTC users switch over.
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
I herd one of the fare inspectors say that they are eventually going to get scanners to read a presto card so they can see if it's been used. Right now until presto is system wide you still need a paper transfer.
nfitz
Superstar
That was all in the motion on April 29th, that was part of the discussion of the change in the Seniors fare. See the April decision at http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Com...educed_Senior_Fares_During_Off_Peak_Hours.pdf
Not sure there's anything new ... other than that they are still aiming for October; these things have a way of slipping.
Megaton327
Senior Member
This seems wrong to me based on the fact that this is not stated as a rule anywhere--in fact, the TTC has large posters explaining how to use Presto up at Union, Spadina, and various 509/510 stops, and they all explicitly state that a paper transfer is ONLY needed if transferring to another route, and that simply tapping on the fare payment device is sufficient if not transferring. Additionally, all TTC/Presto staff that I have spoken to have confirmed this, so it's very odd that the fare inspectors would be saying differently, and especially that they would write tickets when people have been explicitly told they don't need the transfer.
I have a metropass myself but often travel on the 509 with somebody who uses Presto when possible and doesn't take a transfer (I've also seen less knowledgeable passengers do the same at the explicit and direct instruction of TTC staff aboard), and I had been getting worried they could get wrongfully fined. So, I decided to look at TTC By-Law No. 1 myself to see if someone who pays with Presto and fails to take a paper POP receipt can be fined by a fare inspector onboard or when getting off the vehicle at Spadina or Union, and according to the bylaw there is nothing requiring you to have anything other than your Presto card. If they don't have readers, that's their problem, there's no section providing for any penalty against the passenger--they can write you a ticket but you can get it cancelled in court and possibly sue for deliberate criminal harassment. The section relevant is: "2.6 When requested to do so by a proper authority, a person travelling on the transit system shall immediately surrender for inspection the fare media, an identification card or photo identification card under which the person is travelling." Fare media is defined as including an electronic farecard, therefore handing the inspector your Presto card is sufficient, and while they can say they don't have a reader and ask you for a transfer, you are under no obligation to provide one.
Good to see that they can't wrongfully fine people for that. Phew.
vaas
New Member
Heres a video from back in May of Brad Ross and Andy Byford giving a rundown of how to obtain transfers and basically the message is, if you're paying with cash, token or presto, always get one.
They begin talking about presto and the new lflrv at the 4 minute mark. Byford says when stopped by fare inspectors you're supposed to show them either your metropass or your transfer as proof-of-payment. Theres no mention of presto card readers.
Megaton327
Senior Member
That's all well and good, but if there are 1) massive posters in stations and at stops saying otherwise, 2) TTC employees saying otherwise, and 3) absolutely nothing whatsoever in the bylaw saying that is required, then it isn't required. A youtube video is not law.
vaas
New Member
Didn't mean to infer it was law. With the convoluted information people are clearly receiving I figure hearing it from Byford would be the safest bet.
Also, something is only considered fare media when its issued by the TTC (tokens, metropass, transfers). Are presto cards technically issued by the province? Maybe getting a transfer after paying with presto is the workaround.
Also, something is only considered fare media when its issued by the TTC (tokens, metropass, transfers). Are presto cards technically issued by the province? Maybe getting a transfer after paying with presto is the workaround.
I get a transfer when using Presto simply to avoid the hassle. I saw a group of fare inspectors yesterday for the first time. Albeit, they were sitting at Starbucks.
P23
Active Member
Seriously hope they go with monthly capping rather than a pass you load. It's simpler and more fair to riders.
nfitz
Superstar
A pass is simple enough. My TTC pass arrives in the mail every month, and get's deducted from my bank account. They could just as easily load it automatically to my Presto Card.
They could do both. Some systems have monthly passes and monthly capping. Some have monthly passes and weekly capping. One has both a monthly and an annual pass.
Presumably if you buy an annual pass, you'd pay less than a monthly pass, and less than monthly capping. You could also argue that a monthly pass should be a bit less than monthly capping, as you take on risk, and provide the money up front.
What I don't see on any system is daily capping.
CDL.TO
Moderator
London does daily capping.
nfitz
Superstar
Not using Presto.
Can Presto handle it?
And if it can, can it handle doing both daily and weekly capping (or daily and monthly capping?). I don't think London has both daily and weekly capping. Last time I used it, it was daily capping or buy a pass (which I think can be as short as 3-days, or as long as a month).
ehlow
Senior Member
They often check people at Spadina station as they get off the streetcar.
My impression is that they don't have Presto readers and therefore Presto users have to take a paper transfer (unfortunately).