LCBO / The Beer Store

[lenaitch]

Regulations are already strictly enforced

No . . . they are not.

There is a tad more accountability with lottery because of the terminal network but there is virtually no proactive enforcement. Tobacco regs are enforced by local Health Units/local municipal governments and we all know they are just dripping with staff.

 

[PL1]

No . . . they are not.

There is a tad more accountability with lottery because of the terminal network but there is virtually no proactive enforcement. Tobacco regs are enforced by local Health Units/local municipal governments and we all know they are just dripping with staff.

IMHO, it should be a high fine, 3-strikes system for any regulated substances (tobacco, cannabis, alcohol), with a permanent loss of license after a 3rd offense.

This (fines) is why they always ask for ID in large parts of the US: no cashier wants to lose their job and receive a large fine for selling without checking age.

 

[toraerach]

Tobacco and lottery is gatekept behind the counter by the cashier. Alcohol is most jurisdictions will be in the fridges with the soft drinks, barring the super fancy/expensive stuff. A lot easier for kids or shoplifters to pilfer.

Kids and shoplifters can already pilfer what they want from their local LCBO, Beer Store or licensed grocery store (or their parents' fridge for that matter). I don't anticipate convenience stores being any worse at enforcement—in fact, given the extremely tight margins in the industry, I'd think the mom-n-pop convenience store operators out there would have an even greater incentive to prevent shoplifting than your average LCBO/Beer Store cashier.

As an added benefit, increased revenue from alcohol sales should help keep small grocers and convenience stores afloat, many of whom serve communities poorly served by the big chains. It should also help wean them off reliance on tobacco sales as smoking rates continue to decline.

 

[toraerach]

No . . . they are not.

There is a tad more accountability with lottery because of the terminal network but there is virtually no proactive enforcement. Tobacco regs are enforced by local Health Units/local municipal governments and we all know they are just dripping with staff.

Maybe things have changed since I worked in a convenience store back in my student days ~15 years ago, but tobacco sales were absolutely enforced, and the high penalty relative to low wages was a huge deterrent.

We will never have perfect enforcement. The question to me is whether convenience stores will be any worse than current alcohol retailers, where we know enforcement can be spotty (see here, for example).

 

[lenaitch]

Maybe things have changed since I worked in a convenience store back in my student days ~15 years ago, but tobacco sales were absolutely enforced, and the high penalty relative to low wages was a huge deterrent.

We will never have perfect enforcement. The question to me is whether convenience stores will be any worse than current alcohol retailers, where we know enforcement can be spotty (see here, for example).

Perhaps. In my seven years with the AGCO I could see a steep decline in regulatory oversight. A lot has been dumped onto them in the past few years; alcohol, gaming, horse racing and cannabis. Enforcement is only part of regulatory compliance but I witnessed things slide from a licence/permit suspension to an endless parade of 'don't do it again' letters.

Thankfully, they didn't inherit the Tobacco Control Act, which was left to PHU inspectors and municipal bylaw enforcement.

I stand to be surprised.

 

[Towered]

I've witnessed several large scale thefts in various LCBO's over the last few years, and everybody is always so blasé and casual about it when it happens.

 

[lenaitch]

I've witnessed several large scale thefts in various LCBO's over the last few years, and everybody is always so blasé and casual about it when it happens.

Ya, I remember it being a big news item a couple of years ago when it became public (via the union?) that the LCBO had a 'no intervention policy. Once that is public knowledge, if you're looking for free booze, why rush? Some of the videos I saw looked pretty casual. Besides, any weapons, violence, threats, etc. turns a simple theft into a robbery.

 

[gabe]

I've witnessed several large scale thefts in various LCBO's over the last few years, and everybody is always so blasé and casual about it when it happens.

And because of that, the LCBO has launched a controversial ID scanning program at some locations.

Customers will need to come in the exterior door and present their ID to be scanned by security before they are permitted through the interior door, and can also only enter one at a time.
Interestingly, the Crown coporation will be instructing guards to check the ID of anyone who looks to be over the age of 17, which it says is in part because "unfortunately, sometimes theft incidents involve minors."
Anyone without a valid ID and/or who has a record of a prior incident in an LCBO will be denied entry, while the photos, names and birthdates of those IDs scanned will be "securely" kept on file for 14 days — that is, assuming there won't be any further data leaks after the two the company had last year.

LCBO is beefing up security to stop theft and here's how stores will be different

The LCBO has just announced some big changes coming to some of its locations in the next few months that could eventually be expanded to more store...

www.blogto.com

 

[Northern Light]

And because of that, the LCBO has launched a controversial ID scanning program at some locations.

Customers will need to come in the exterior door and present their ID to be scanned by security before they are permitted through the interior door, and can also only enter one at a time.
Interestingly, the Crown coporation will be instructing guards to check the ID of anyone who looks to be over the age of 17, which it says is in part because "unfortunately, sometimes theft incidents involve minors."
Anyone without a valid ID and/or who has a record of a prior incident in an LCBO will be denied entry, while the photos, names and birthdates of those IDs scanned will be "securely" kept on file for 14 days — that is, assuming there won't be any further data leaks after the two the company had last year.

LCBO is beefing up security to stop theft and here's how stores will be different

The LCBO has just announced some big changes coming to some of its locations in the next few months that could eventually be expanded to more store...

www.blogto.com

These are all in Northern, Ontario, so you won't see this change in Toronto for at least another year. I'm not sure you'll see it then either; the problem they have is that widespread sales of wine/beer are coming by 2026 if not earlier, and most other stores will not be implementing this rather unfriendly approach.

 

[Richard White]

These are all in Northern, Ontario, so you won't see this change in Toronto for at least another year. I'm not sure you'll see it then either; the problem they have is that widespread sales of wine/beer are coming by 2026 if not earlier, and most other stores will not be implementing this rather unfriendly approach.

I am currently canoodling a woman who lives in Sioux Lookout. I will ask her about this once it has a time to play out.

With all the unhoused and those without valid ID I can see this being an issue here. There are alot more people with addiction issues in the GTA than there are in Northern Ontario and the need to support those addictions can make people do dangerous things.

 

[Northern Light]

I am currently canoodling a woman who lives in Sioux Lookout. I will ask her about this once it has a time to play out.

With all the unhoused and those without valid ID I can see this being an issue here. There are alot more people with addiction issues in the GTA than there are in Northern Ontario and the need to support those addictions can make people do dangerous things.

The LCBO would drive too much business to competitors, I think.

The other issue in the GTA is customer volume. Doing this at a store where a busy night is one customer every 10M is one thing, doing this at Manulife Centre, where can have more than one entry every 30s is another.

 

[Richard White]

The LCBO would drive too much business to competitors, I think.

The other issue in the GTA is customer volume. Doing this at a store where a busy night is one customer every 10M is one thing, doing this at Manulife Centre, where can have more than one entry every 30s is another.

That is why this works in places like Sioux Lookout where the population is only ~5000.

It may work at stores in the boonies like those in small pockets of civilization such as Oro-Medonte, Huntsville, etc.

 

[christiesplits]

I've witnessed several large scale thefts in various LCBO's over the last few years, and everybody is always so blasé and casual about it when it happens

LCBO management and union tell floor employees not to chase and run after thieves, since they can be held liable if the suspect is injured.

 

[Richard White]

LCBO management and union tell floor employees not to chase and run after thieves, since they can be held liable if the suspect is injured.

That is standard across most employers ever since the Loblaws incident noted here: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/man-died-from-accidental-suffocation-during-arrest-inquest-1.475434

Nobody wants to be responsible if someone dies or gets injured while shoplifting. All it takes is one headlock or head injury for someone to die.

 

[evandyk]

For private security in general, they're instructed not to pursue and engage with shoplifters generally (other than specifically trained ones). Their role is to document the incident, note the time and place, identify witnesses, etc. so they can turn a good file over to the police with appropriate evidence to start an investigation. Which the police never do, of course, but they're the ones trained to apprehend criminals.