Immigration App Rejected

[cacruden]

Brandon: It is disheartening to read that tough news but I also want to know just how tough it is to emigrate from the US to Canada?

I guess being literate in English and wanting to contribute to Canadian society in a positive way is just not enough.

What are those trades that would advance you?

I am hoping myself that political changes in the USA under Obama would turn around the animosity between our two Nations that became pronounced under Bush in this decade-things were easier back in the 80s when I took the majority of my Canadian trips.

The way I feel today is that what used to be one of the World's most friendliest borders is not so friendly anymore-and I feel it does NOT have to be that way.

-Comments from Long Island Mike-

Amazing enough it use to be harder. I am holding out some hope that maybe they will revisit NAFTA - call it NAFTA plus and make it easier to go back and forth (it was not a priority under Bush - he was only interested in security). I probably won't use it in the short-term, my dream job would take me to SE Asia - but I like the thought that I can travel to other countries for work. It is stupid to make it easy to export goods, and jobs, but not labour IMHO.

 

[cacruden]

BTW Brandon, what is your area of expertise (employment)?

Actually, this pisses me off (not as much as Brandon), I know that prior to this year - we have actually fallen short on the immigration targets.

Drop in, declare yourself a refugee and you can stay for approximately 7 years while your case winds through the court procedures (even though I don't know many real refugees that can just fly in no problem), and you try to do it legally - and you get slapped down.

 

[khris]

Personally I find it really strange that any government can tell you where you can live in this world. Nobody owns the earth. It is all of ours to share, and if I want to move somewhere I should be able to.

If governments are going to control the earth this way, then it has to be done more fairly.
We let in people who can't speak one word in English or French, but people who want to actually contribute to Canadian society, who are intelligent and smart can't get into the country to live.

 

[JasonParis]

Non English and French speakers don't contribute?

 

[Mot]

I've wanted to move to Canada for 7 years, I've been actively trying since summer of 2004 which is going on 5 years. Everything has been tried at this point, I'm done. Forget any NAFTA rules (it didn't work for me in 2007 when I applied for a work permit), forget everything... Its over.

I can't keep being addicted to something I'll never have, so I doubt i'll ever be in Canada again at this rate.

BTW, if you want to know what is the problem now, its the new rules instituted by the Harper government last year.

If I had 4 years of experience working as a chef or a construction equipment operator for the oil industry, I could get in. Since his goverment has narrowed the experience to 38 categories, I no longer qualify. And neither do the many other well qualified, Canadian loving wannabes in the world.

I have no more energy to commit to this project anymore.

Besides, I have no more money to keep trying.

Its over guys, I was just a little surprised and the initial shock where I started hyperventilating at least only took 30 minutes to get over.

I need to move on, and I will.

You are exactly right. Harper and his team are causing so much trouble with the immigration process. When we applied we got our AOR (Acknowledgement of Receipt) in 30 days. Those coming after us tell me it's taking 6 months or more to get it, the AOR is simply a case number saying you iare in que.

The backlog is getting worse daily and the Tories have sped up the process only for a select group, the 38 categories you mentioned. I can't wait until they are thrown out, hopefully this spring. Maybe when we have good leadership again then you will be welcomed with open arms.

 

[Tewder]

This is not commentary on Brandon's case. I'm sorry to hear his news because he truly seems like he valued this country and wanted to come here and contribute and isn't that what we need?

Immigration should be a somewhat 'difficult' process, as it is for most countries because we've all witnessed the abuses that happen to the system with governments that are lax.

 

[OttoSchloss]

You could try and find a nice Canadian to marry!

It's little comfort but I personally believe that NAFTA should have a few more provisions, like the European Union which allows its citizens to freely work and live in each nation without having to apply for silly visas -making it no different than say moving from NY State to live in California. In this way, having to seek citizenship in Canada or the U.S. would pretty much become irrelevant unless you are seeking the rights and benefits that nation's citizenship bestows. I'm almost in the same predicament. I'd rather stay in the U.S than return to Canada. I really only like living in Toronto, find the politics irritating in Canada and the ROC stifling, and hate the cold.

 

[Brandon716]

I have had a day to adjust and relax some, so its getting easier. My point about bringing up the new Harper rules weren't to spark a political debate really, but its true that his new rules are why my application was rejected. The new rules have narrowed the immigrant categories for skilled workers to very few jobs.

While every immigrant brings a story and a diverse background, I do think it is rediculous that Americans who want to move to Canada are getting rejected when they obviously have skills to bring to the table.

Everything you guys have mentioned is stuff that I have reviewed before. Going to a Canadian college or university? Well I already have a college degree, but if I went to university it would be over my head financially. The amount required to pay int'l tuition, boarding, etc. is astronomical and out of my league.

NAFTA? It doesn't really pertain to anything unless you are doing an internal company transfer. Immigration officers don't consider NAFTA on independent work permits, its only when a company does the paperwork on your behalf mostly.

Find a job on a work permit? I have been into so many HR offices of companies looking to hire, its pointless. They always say you need the work permit and social insurance number first. Obviously the government sees things differently, and they say you must have an employer that has offered you a job before you can apply (and the employer has to fill out HRSDC paperwork and get it approved, which no one knows how to or is willing to). Unless you have a personal friend or connection that is hiring you, you are out of luck.

And now its impossible to do permanent immigration waiting through the process outside of Canada unless you fit into 38 narrow categories as defined by the Harper government.

...those rules can change at any time, so if you gain 2 years of experience in one job, in two years those 38 jobs may have changed to different titles. Totally erasing your chances of immigration.

Its just not worth it guys, its simply not. No one can live on edge all the time hoping, wishing, spending money, spending weeks doing endless, unnecessary paperwork over and over.

Its just not worth it. I'm stuck and I have to accept that I don't control my destiny. Its just the way things are.

To those who tell me to cherish living in progressive America, well I've done so. I've lived in Chicago, I've lived in Portland, I now live in Pittsburgh. I've travelled all over the US, I've spent weeks in San Francisco, I've spent time in New Orleans, I've spent time in Denver, I've spent time in Seattle. I don't need to be given a lesson on my home nation as I know it in and out and have lived in every region of it. I know more about American history than most college grads, forget about those in the general population. I know what my nation is and what to expect from it, and I do cherish what we have.

But what I want is Canada, and I have to accept that its not mine and I can't have it.

I have been taught a lesson that when relying on a human-less, face-less, non-caring government bureau that you can't expect much. The person who reviewed and rejected my application got the last letter of my first name wrong, despite it being accurate on other forms.

If they can't even spell my name right, they have nothing to go on except arcane rules and code that is as inhumane as anything can get. Immigration isn't about humanity, its about pumping numbers around and benefitting western economies. That's almost all its about.

Those of you who were born in Canada should be very, very thankful for what you have. You have access to a western society, that while not perfect, is about as good as it gets. While the winter may be a little cold unless you're in Vancouver and the BC coast, its a very small price to pay for having such a civilized nation.

Yes, there are imperfections all around, but Canada has far more net positives than its negatives. FAR MORE. Not everyone can just move to Canada. Just because you see a lot of immigrants doesn't mean you can just get up and move there.

Cherish what you have, because most Canadians will never understand how lucky they are to live in such a place.

 

[Filip]

I'm so sorry.. I can't imagine how you must feel right now.

I always imagined it was easy to immigrate here, and how it must be far easier to immigrate here as an American, a native English speaker. We're so quick to accept people who can't peep in English but we don't accept those who can integrate fastest? Sometimes I just don't understand this country.

When we immigrated here from Switzerland it was a painless process, but those days are gone now.

 

[Brandon716]

Its these new rules that are the problem, they have changed the game for everyone. The old rules were pretty orderly: you may apply as a skilled worker under any job category, and by the decision of an independent immigration officer, so long as you had several years of experience, enough points on the points scale, and then you waited long enough for the app to process (and could meet the security requirements) it was pretty much cut and dry.

I waited years so that I could match the points needed, and now the rules have changed. I now have the points necessary to immigrate, but no longer qualify because of the narrowing of the job categories from anything to only 38 job categories. The job categories have been narrowed so small that only special cases will be allowed in until its changed.

Harper's government is only letting people in under their preferred rules, and its the most radical change to Canadian immigration policy since its inception.

 

[doady]

Personally I find it really strange that any government can tell you where you can live in this world. Nobody owns the earth. It is all of ours to share, and if I want to move somewhere I should be able to.

If governments are going to control the earth this way, then it has to be done more fairly.
We let in people who can't speak one word in English or French, but people who want to actually contribute to Canadian society, who are intelligent and smart can't get into the country to live.

In other words, what you are saying is that people from non-English and French countries are stupid and can't contribute to Canadian society.

 

[androiduk]

My sympathies Brandon, dealing with immigration is definitely red tape at it's stickiest. For me, this is a very timely thread. Tomorrow, I will be filling out my wife's application for Citizenship. It has taken 7 long years to get to this point, not to mention 1000's of dollars in fees. And if that weren't enough, after paying OHIP for 35 years, I had to pay over $10,000 in medical fees to have our second child because of her status. I hope you can find some peace in the States because I wouldn't wish this exercise on anybody.

 

[Brandon716]

In other words, what you are saying is that people from non-English and French countries are stupid and can't contribute to Canadian society.

I think everyone wants immigration, its healthy to exchange cultures, ideas, traditions, etc. Bringing them into Canada is a great thing, from every perspective. BUT, I do think turning away people who could assimilate so easily is a mistake on so many levels. Americans and Europeans and Australians certainly could assimilate in Canada very easily, and I don't understand why there are barriers.

For everyone else, I don't think there should be barriers, but an officer should independently review how well they can communicate and perform. To be honest, its not about keeping people out. But if you let someone in with so few skills, they will have a hard time competing. The last thing you want is to create some huge underclass in society.

For example, if someone from Brazil applies, they need to simply demonstrate they can speak/hear/write/read one official language fluently as a bare minimum.

I don't think that's too much to ask. If I immigrated to Germany, I would expect to learn German. If I tried to immigrate to The Netherlands I'd expect to learn Dutch before applying. If I applied to go to China, I better know cantonese or something at the very least before I should be allowed in.

 

[Brandon716]

I hope you can find some peace in the States because I wouldn't wish this exercise on anybody.

There are fantastic parts of the states, no doubt, but there's such a clear difference between the character of Canada and the character of the United States that I get surprised when people in both nations minimize the differences. They are real, and they are apparent in every way.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Brandon, with respect - and I don't intend to downplay how important being a Canadian is for you - but if you're looking for a more tolerant and pluralistic society, you really are telling us that you want to emigrate to Toronto, not Canada. There is a huge difference. It would be akin to saying that New York City or San Francisco is representative of the United States as a whole. Granted, I'd rather live in small town Canada than small town America, but I'd rather not live in either.

What I think ultimately dictates the level of social progression in Canada compared to the United States is just the proportion of the overall population that lives in large metropolitan areas. The 4 largest cities (and their suburbs) account for over 40% of the population here. Throw in the next 4 and you've accounted for the majority. While the US is heavily urbanized and has very large metro areas, the 8 most progressive cities simply cannot possess that level of political clout.