kEiThZ
Superstar
He should get the reprieve because of the gravity of the sentence he faces upon his return. However, the law still is not on his side.....
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Canada to deport U.S. army deserter
- Thread starter Mot
- Start date
He should get the reprieve because of the gravity of the sentence he faces upon his return. However, the law still is not on his side.....
Admiral Beez
Superstar
I don't follow....what harsh sentence? His colleagues, upon return to the USA, have faced 9-15 months in jail and a discharge from the military. Not exactly harsh by the standards of the last century for military deserters in time of war.
kEiThZ
Superstar
I meant he deserves to have his appeal heard because he faces jail time on return to the US...but I am confident that he will probably get deported in the end. Hopefully, this file can be closed soon with a precedent that will dissuade others from abusing our refugee laws.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
I'm surprised that the US hasn't simply asked Canada to extradite these deserters, as they're now criminals wanted in the US, hiding in Canada.
kEiThZ
Superstar
I think US diplomats understand the sensitivity of these issues. Imagine the press coverage and the backlash that would happen if the US embassy were to ask for their extradition. That would virtually guarantee political pressure for asylum. And it would likely be received by most Canadians as interference. I am sure the yanks understand that.
Mot
Active Member
One immigrant is telling another immigrant he should have stayed in his country and changed it. What a howl!
In response to this: "Good. And if it were me, I would do it by staying in my homeland. You don't achieve change by typing on a keyboard from hundreds of miles away."
So Keith why don't you go back and fix your home country?. I am sure you didn't come here because it's better there.
Yet in the same dizzy rant you say my family should not be priority over my birth nation. Sad indeed. My condolences to your loved ones.
In response to this: "Good. And if it were me, I would do it by staying in my homeland. You don't achieve change by typing on a keyboard from hundreds of miles away."
So Keith why don't you go back and fix your home country?. I am sure you didn't come here because it's better there.
Yet in the same dizzy rant you say my family should not be priority over my birth nation. Sad indeed. My condolences to your loved ones.
kEiThZ
Superstar
I am not the one who disagrees with Canada's laws and policies. I quite happen to like them as they are. And I am not advocating for change in ye olde country from here either.
My parents chose to come here because life is supposed to be better here. But I don't see how that has bearing on the discussion at hand. I have not advocated change in the policies of my birth nation from here or an adversarial relationship between Canada and that nation. I happened to think that once my family and I took on Canadian citizenship that we should do and think about what is best for Canada. You apparently seem to have more concern for US deserters than Canada's national interests.
Your family's issues with the government of your birth state are for you and said government to sort out. I said that you should advocate for better treatment for your family over there instead of yelling from the soapbox here and trying to involve Canadians who have nothing to do with your business or that of the United States. Or do you believe in calling over the neighbours when you and your partner have a fight?
And mine to yours....somebody who feels compelled to draw in outside interference into their private matters is probably not due for a successful and happy home life.
In the end, you have still failed to show how the need for special treatment for deserters who have voluntarily signed up for military service outweighs the severe legal, political, trade consequences that would result from providing these individuals with shelter. And no amount of rhetoric and personal attacks will get you there (notice how nobody on UT really seems to be defending your point of view....including many self-professed Liberals)....Keep trying though.
Mot
Active Member
So Keith, you really want me to believe you have no interest in changing any policy or law in Canada? I don't believe it.
I get it, You don't think you should try and change things you think are wrong in the world. I disagree with you. I firmly believe what's best for Canada is to continue to be against rogue militarism as we've done historically. Your family just as mine are immigrants and you suggested I should have stayed and made my country better, I am simply applying your logic to yourself and your family.
You and others asked what the Social conservatives did to my family, I anwered, now you bring on this crazy response about my partner and I fighting. Strange response from you since Canada has already given my family what we want and need. I think you are confusing the War Resister debate with me answering a question.
I was asked a question and gladly answered, perhaps
you should not ask people questions about their personal lives if you intend to use the answers against them. It's quite Rovian of you.
We did fail some of the battles because the Tories run the government. Losing does not mean we are wrong. Don't mistake people's silence for agreement with you. Some just don't like debating people like you. I've been told it's a waste of time. I guess if I spent hours here every day like you do, it would be a waste of time. I am not here for a popularity contest.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Perhaps for specific programs maybe. But where we are talking about the general framework of Canada's laws...no, I think they are fine. And make no mistake, accepting military deserters from the US or any other country would be a drastic change in Canada's laws and traditions.
Well sir, I disagree with you that there is anything wrong in this situation. I believe that the deserters will get a fair trial in a democracy that adheres to the rule of law. If they don't want to live up to their commitments that is not the business of Canada either. Are you implying that Canada is doing something by not actively intervening between a private citizen and the government of a sovereign democratic state?
Fair enough, but Canada does not have a history of rogue militarism, so it is not about us. What you really want us to do is undermine the foreign policy of the US by accepting deserters.
You are not applying the same logic. I have accepted the fact that as a Canadian I have no responsibility or right to advocate for policy change in the land of my birth. You on the other hand want Canadians to actively interfere and undermine the policies of a sovereign country. I don't bitch about how bad things are back home, nor do I ask Canadians to interfere in that nation's policies, so how is the logic the same?
Apparently you don't get the analogy. Or you are avoiding the question. Requesting involvement by Canadians in a matter that is between a citizen and his government is akin to asking the neighbours to adjudicate a fight between two partners.
Don't mistake the fickle Liberal election promises for actual support. Once they are in government and see the consequences for accepting the deserters, these individuals will be on the first bus to Buffalo.
Nope it doesn't. But it does not make you right either.
Funny, you would think that debate would be the main purpose of an internet forum. And you would think that given the nature of UT, that if others disagreed with me they would jump to your defence. Certainly people have disagreed with me on numerous other topics. And I have learned a lot from their arguments. On this issue though...hasn't happened.....
Neither am I. The course of action you are advocating has grievous consequences for Canada. That's why I oppose them. Unlike you, I only have one passport. I don't have anywhere else to go, so I am quite invested in ensuring a successful Canada.
Mot
Active Member
The dead horse has been beaten to a pulp.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Mot
Active Member
"Onward Christian soldiers marching off to war" Calling real soldiers cowards, that's rich.
digi
Active Member
We're not discussing 'real soldiers', we're discussing the cowards who deserted their military and are trying to get into Canada, illegally.
Your US education is showing.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Um....do you think the troops these resisters have abandoned would them them "real soldiers"? How can you call any military person who fled from their unit a real soldier. You could, I agree use the term real soldier for someone who refused to fight and stood their ground on moral grounds, taking the consequences, but no real soldier would abandon his duty and comrades and run for the most convenient safe haven.
Send them home, send them now.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
MOT, I'm genuinely curious...if you consider those that abandon their units and and flee to Canada as being real soldiers, what do you think of those hundreds of thousands of US soldiers that have gone to serve in Iraq, many on multiple tours? Are they all victims and unwilling pawns? What should they think of the deserters hiding in Canada?
I'm not baiting you for a sarcastic answer, but instead I'm very interested in your thoughts on that, as it seems on the surface a contradiction.
I'm not baiting you for a sarcastic answer, but instead I'm very interested in your thoughts on that, as it seems on the surface a contradiction.