Roads: Highway 407 East (Durham Region)

[ShonTron]

I wish the WDL was designated Highway 412, extended north of Highway 407, not tolled, and connected to Highway 12 via an at-grade highway around Brooklin. Highway 12 itself should be upgraded with some four-laning (up to Port Perry) and more passing lanes all the way to Orillia.

 

[gweed123]

You both have very valid points; traffic on Brock Street (and Brock Road, further west at the current end of the 407 in Pickering) can be brutal at times. I suppose my primary objection is to the freeway nature of the West Durham Link (esp. next to or directly through the narrow strip of the Greenbelt between Ajax and Whitby) ; I don't see it as being a necessary configuration. Lake Ridge is an 80 km/h road with very few intersections. Admittedly it is only two-lanes but for the price of a brand-new highway and complex freeway-to-freeway interchanges a fair degree of upgrades (widening to two lanes, full interchange with the 401, even grade separation at busier intersections if warranted) could be made to turn the existing road into one serving the same function as the WDL instead.

At the end of the day I also agree about the necessity of the 407 East as a whole, especially the revenue that its tolls will place into the provincial coffers (where, had it not been for Harris, they would/should have been going all along).

I wish the WDL was designated Highway 412, extended north of Highway 407, not tolled, and connected to Highway 12 via an at-grade highway around Brooklin. Highway 12 itself should be upgraded with some four-laning (up to Port Perry) and more passing lanes all the way to Orillia.

I suppose that a 4-laned at-grade Lakeridge could accomplish some of the same goals, but I think that a controlled access expressway better future-proofs the area. Yes, it's unfortunate that it cuts through the middle of a swath of greenspace, but I suppose people would rather have that than through a built-up area.

And yes, signing it as 412 would definitely make sense, considering that Highway 12 is only a couple of KMs to the east. The practice of naming new 400-series highways after the 2-lane highways they're replacing has been commonplace for quite some time now.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I wish the WDL was designated Highway 412, extended north of Highway 407, not tolled, and connected to Highway 12 via an at-grade highway around Brooklin. Highway 12 itself should be upgraded with some four-laning (up to Port Perry) and more passing lanes all the way to Orillia.

The busiest portion of 12 is north of 48 until old (pre downloading) 48 splits off of the highway again north of Beaverton. MTO does intend to 4 lane that stretch in the next few years though I think, they rebuilt a bridge just outside of Beaverton a few years ago and its built for 4 lanes.

I'm still pissed off at the downloading of 48 east of 12 and 169.

The last newly numbered highway is the 416, its been a while since MTO introduced a new numbered 400 series highway.

 

[Transportfan]

^ If there's going to be a four-lane highway running up to Beaverton, it should be an extended 404, not an widened, but undivided 48.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Nope, it will only be 4 lanes (or rather 5 with a continuous left turn) from the 48/12 intersection to the old 48/12 intersection, the part that the two highways interline.

This section:

The plan is to eventually extend the 404 as a full replacement of 48, it would end where 48 ends today. They did an EA on that a decade or so ago as part of the current 404 extension, so MTO is fairly serious about it I think.

 

[Platform 27]

The plan is to eventually extend the 404 as a full replacement of 48, it would end where 48 ends today. They did an EA on that a decade or so ago as part of the current 404 extension, so MTO is fairly serious about it I think.

That was a different time, and the MTO's no longer serious about it. The Growth Plan cut the 404 back to to Ravenshoe on the basis that sprawl in Georgina was not to be promoted.

 

[waterloowarrior]

new Google earth imagery in Durham from Sept 2013. You can see work at the 401/WDL, the WDL, and 407 routing around Brooklin.

 

[Transportfan]

That was a different time, and the MTO's no longer serious about it. The Growth Plan cut the 404 back to to Ravenshoe on the basis that sprawl in Georgina was not to be promoted.

That's a stupid reason not to extend it. The 404 should be extended up to Hwy. 11 in Washago as an alternative to a widened 400, which will get completely blocked if there's an accident anyway. The MTO needs redundancy in the highway network, not single, massive freeways

 

[innsertnamehere]

^I'm going to disagree with that. The 400 should get an HOV lane, it would help with the friday cottage bound traffic (which contains large proportions of multiple people in each vehicle) while maintaining limited sprawl growth in Barrie. Hell, make it 2 HOV lanes each way.

 

[jamincan]

I'm not sure that HOV lanes are a useful response to cottage traffic. When it's a problem, the vast majority of vehicles on 400 are HOVs and therefore HOV lanes are going to be just as congested as general lanes. Also, the whole point of adding them is to encourage people to carpool, which is not a problem in cottage season.

That said, I think extending the 404 to 11 for summer traffic would help less than you think. It would certainly help with Muskoka, Haliburton and Kawartha Lakes, but as far as volume on 400 goes, most people are heading to Muskoka, Wasaga Beach, or Parry Sound district.

 

[innsertnamehere]

It would increase capacity, which is my point.

Cottage traffic is fairly inflexible, especially the lack if alternate routes from the 400. Adding an HOV lane would be equivilant of adding a full additional travel lane for cottage traffic and would encourage carpooling for commuting, a win win.

 

[ShonTron]

^I'm going to disagree with that. The 400 should get an HOV lane, it would help with the friday cottage bound traffic (which contains large proportions of multiple people in each vehicle) while maintaining limited sprawl growth in Barrie. Hell, make it 2 HOV lanes each way.

I'd go with a reversable HOV set-up, myself. Two centre lanes in its own carriageway that could be used in either direction based on need. Could also be used for emergencies. Interstate 279 in northern Pittsburgh has the same system.

 

[Dan416]

I'd go with a reversable HOV set-up, myself. Two centre lanes in its own carriageway that could be used in either direction based on need. Could also be used for emergencies. Interstate 279 in northern Pittsburgh has the same system.

That's a good idea. Has that ever been done in Ontario?

 

[gweed123]

I'd go with a reversable HOV set-up, myself. Two centre lanes in its own carriageway that could be used in either direction based on need. Could also be used for emergencies. Interstate 279 in northern Pittsburgh has the same system.

The 400 is probably the most suitable highway in Ontario for this arrangement too. A lot of uni-directional, high multiple occupant vehicle travel. The percentage of cars with multiple passengers on weekends, particularly in the summer, is probably significantly higher than the daily average elsewhere, or even compared to the 401 in the same time period. A lot of the HOV travel along that corridor is 'express' travel too, with most just using it to get somewhere else, as opposed to their destination actually lying along it.

PS: 5,000th post! I guess I officially live here now, haha...

 

[innsertnamehere]

Oh Jeeze I must have hit 4,000 in the last few days.. I've been around for a year less than you as well, and barely made any posts for the first 6 months!