Cycling infrastructure (Separated bike lanes)

[PinkLucy]

And others are seeing increases. The Bloor bike lanes haven't been in long enough to truly know what their impact is. There can be many other factors as to why a business has increased or decreased sales.

Both your quote and the one below are anecdotal, neither is based on hard data.

Like many commentators, Thorne feels the lane can help local retailers flourish. Biking on Bloor is now a "much more pleasant experience," she explains, so "many cyclists are changing their route. Lots of them are bringing their business to Bloor because of the lane."

That sentiment is shared by Matt Languay, owner of the Basecamp Climbing gym, which is located near the bike lane's western extremity. Now in its second year of operation, Basecamp hosts 200 to 300 climbers a day and its pool of customers is expanding steadily. Languay believes some of that growth is due to the new lane. It's "been a huge, huge help getting our members" to the facility, he says. "Getting here before the bike lane was much more dangerous."

Source: http://www.davidsuzuki.org/blogs/panther-lounge/2017/05/bloor-bike-lane-a-boon-to-business-safety/

The actual data that has been collected to date shows that opinions are split. Again, it's opinions for the most part so far. Data on actual economic impact is still being collected. http://www.tcat.ca/projects/faq-bloor-street-west-bike-lane-pilot-economic-impact-study/

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Quoting David Suzuki Foundation is like quoting Cycle Toronto on this issue,.... it won't be unbiased.

If bike lanes & cycle tracks are so great for local businesses,.... why does Cycle Toronto feel the need for Tour de Bloor Passport program to skew the results and encourage even more cyclist to support local businesses????

Let's wait until the City Staff report comes out on result of Bloor Bike Lane Pilot Study,....

 

[amnesiajune]

Point out a 3.0m traffic lane on a major arterial road in Toronto.

I've never stood in the middle of the road and measured lane widths. I doubt you or anyone else here has done that. I just read the city's documents. Here's the link again, in case you missed it the first time: https://www1.toronto.ca/City Of Toronto/Engineering and Construction Services/Standards and Specifications/Files/pdf/Road Design Guidelines/Lane_Widths_Quick_Reference_Version_2.0_Jun2017.pdf

 

[innsertnamehere]

Pretty sure St Clair is actually 2.8m.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Pretty sure St Clair is actually 2.8m.

Specifying where along St.Clair would probably be helpful,..... as 2.8m wide traffic lanes would actually be a liability issue for the City since it's below City's 3.0m minimum. Note: When St.Clair streetcars are down, they're replace by TTC buses which can not operate on streetcar right-of-way tracks and must use traffic lanes. The 2.97m wide TTC bus will not fit on your 2.8m St.Clair traffic lanes; TTC requires minimum of 3.3m wide traffic lane for TTC buses.

 

[ADRM]

why does Cycle Toronto feel the need for Tour de Bloor Passport program to skew the results and encourage even more cyclist to support local businesses????

Because of people like you who, unfortunately, dominate Council.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

I've never stood in the middle of the road and measured lane widths. I doubt you or anyone else here has done that. I just read the city's documents. Here's the link again, in case you missed it the first time: https://www1.toronto.ca/City Of Toronto/Engineering and Construction Services/Standards and Specifications/Files/pdf/Road Design Guidelines/Lane_Widths_Quick_Reference_Version_2.0_Jun2017.pdf

Well then, you'd be wrong since I'm actually stupid enough to measured traffic lanes (in person with tape measure); specifically on Yonge Street in front of MelLastman Square and EmpressWalk about 4 years ago. The data was part of a concept I presented to City; thus, there's a official proof if needed!

But since then, I've realized it's better and much safer!!! to measure live traffic lanes via the Ruler tool of GoogleEARTH as done here:
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...-rosario-varacalli.4829/page-135#post-1163869

Don't worry, I'm very familiar with that City document you posted,.... the so called "target" lane width (3.0m) are really just minimal allowable lane width,.... to which the City will NOT design for. Look at ReImagining Yonge Street Study,.... objectives to maximized pedestrian sidewalk width and introduce cycling infrastructure but yet, City designing for 3.2m & 3.3m traffic lane width (basically the 3.3m maximum for 50km/hr traffic lane as per document you linked to),.... instead of the 3.0m "target",.... perhaps, you should inquire why the "target" are not targeted with City Staff,... and they are in fact designing closer to the maximum guideline of 3.3m for 50km/hr traffic lane.

https://www1.toronto.ca/City Of Toronto/Engineering and Construction Services/Standards and Specifications/Files/pdf/Road Design Guidelines/Lane_Widths_Quick_Reference_Version_2.0_Jun2017.pdf

https://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/contentonly?vgnextoid=a331edb9b72d3510VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

why does Cycle Toronto feel the need for Tour de Bloor Passport program to skew the results and encourage even more cyclist to support local businesses????

Because of people like you who, unfortunately, dominate Council.

ADRM, hmmm,.... so you resort to personal attacks when you don't like what other posters post.

Actually, you'd be eating your snarky words if you really knew who I am or what I've done. You see, I'm quite pro-cycling and I do something about it,... I'm all for building safe cycling infrastructure and have suggested a number of new ideas to the City,... including some that have made the City's 10 Year Cycling Plan.
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...ise-core-architects.26593/page-2#post-1181717

Not only that, but I've out designed City Staff and their consultants with my solutions,... by designing much safer and more inclusive cycling infrastructure,... by such a large degree, that a number of times, City Staff have already adopted or are forced to give my solution serious consideration or are in the process of adopting my cycling solutions. And one of my solution have constantly been posted here by a certain poster like it's the best thing since sliced bread.


BTW, City Council is really dominated by councillors who represent the view and best interest of their constituents.

 

[amnesiajune]

ADRM, hmmm,.... so you resort to personal attacks when you don't like what other posters post.

The pot calls the kettle black!

 

[ADRM]

BTW, City Council is really dominated by councillors who represent the view and best interest of their constituents.

...including when it directly puts people in others' wards unnecessarily in harm's way.

And if you really do consider yourself an advocate for safer cycling in the city, I would suggest that referring to a group of citizens banding together to support businesses as "skewing" a pilot project is undercutting your own stated goals.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

And if you really do consider yourself an advocate for safer cycling in the city, I would suggest that referring to a group of citizens banding together to support businesses as "skewing" a pilot project is undercutting your own stated goals.

The Tour de Bloor Passport program is an initiative of Cycle Toronto's Bloor Working Group,....
http://dandyhorsemagazine.com/blog/2017/06/21/announcing-the-tour-de-bloor-passport/

The problem is now City Staff and consultants must now factor in the effects of the Tour de Bloor passport program. If they over-estimate the effect, then Bloor bike lanes are likely gone.

If they under-estimate the effect, it might help keep the Bloor bike lane,.... but remember the project will still be monitored over the years. If all the sudden, local businesses "unexpectedly" start suffering and closing,.... then Bloor bike lanes might be taken out later,.... City Staff will realize their criteria were too lenient and will have to toughen them,.... then it'll be more difficult to get other cycling infrastructure in the future,....

Cycle Toronto's Tour de Bloor passport program really isn't helping the cause for MinimumGrid, Complete Streets, MajorCorridorStudies,...

 

[amnesiajune]

The Bloor bike lanes aren't going anywhere. I don't know how often this needs to be said, but the Bloor bike lanes aren't going anywhere. They might not be expanded, but they aren't going to be taken out.

 

[ADRM]

The Tour de Bloor Passport program is an initiative of Cycle Toronto's Bloor Working Group,....
http://dandyhorsemagazine.com/blog/2017/06/21/announcing-the-tour-de-bloor-passport/

The problem is now City Staff and consultants must now factor in the effects of the Tour de Bloor passport program. If they over-estimate the effect, then Bloor bike lanes are likely gone.

If they under-estimate the effect, it might help keep the Bloor bike lane,.... but remember the project will still be monitored over the years. If all the sudden, local businesses "unexpectedly" start suffering and closing,.... then Bloor bike lanes might be taken out later,.... City Staff will realize their criteria were too lenient and will have to toughen them,.... then it'll be more difficult to get other cycling infrastructure in the future,....

Cycle Toronto's Tour de Bloor passport program really isn't helping the cause for MinimumGrid, Complete Streets, MajorCorridorStudies,...

I actually think that's an interesting point and argument to engage with, and I think it's got a lot of merit. It runs along a similar thread to a point I made at the outset of the pilot, which is that the type of business impact analysis they're undertaking as part of the survey is basically statistically bunk because it's essentially impossible to isolate causality.

There's no control group here and there are, in effect, no independent variables, so the data can essentially be manipulated via interpretation. Given the level of antipathy towards bikes at Council, I thought that was a fundamental flaw of the design of the pilot from the start, and it may be the one that dooms it.

 

[ADRM]

The Bloor bike lanes aren't going anywhere. I don't know how often this needs to be said, but the Bloor bike lanes aren't going anywhere. They might not be expanded, but they aren't going to be taken out.

Do you have anything other than gut instinct that is prompting you to continue to make that assertion?

I have it on good authority from a number of people that it's very much up in the air, and will essentially come down to the Mayor's vote whipping -- he will decide whether they stay or go, and he's noted at virtually every public opportunity when commenting on the pilot that if businesses don't like them and/or they impede single-occupancy vehicular traffic to an arbitrarily unacceptable degree, the lanes will be removed.

And, predicting your response, those sources are not people affiliated with bike-friendly councillors.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

I have it on good authority from a number of people that it's very much up in the air, and will essentially come down to the Mayor's vote whipping -- he will decide whether they stay or go, and he's noted at virtually every public opportunity when commenting on the pilot that if businesses don't like them and/or they impede single-occupancy vehicular traffic to an arbitrarily unacceptable degree, the lanes will be removed.

In the end,... after "the Mayor's vote whipping",.... and CycleToronto's vote whipping,.... it'll likely look like this,.... or something similar,... as it usually does,....