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VIA Rail

Even if the VIA trains were made compatible with the REM's CBTC system, I can't see how they could be inserted in that traffic without causing service disruptions.
Exactly. Interoperation would have been possible with AMT if VIA had dual modes but with a lower service frequency than possible with REM. But AMT seem to have been politically neutered into giving up what is surely their crown jewel.
 
"For the existing routes, residents along the Toronto-Kingston-Montreal-Quebec corridor will see improved scheduling and service tailored to their community's needs," Diaby wrote.

This will be an interesting one to watch. Those words have a lot of subjectivity/spin to them. What could possibly be more tailored to Kingston than what they have today? The "tailoring" has to be code for a takeaway scenario.

I just can't believe we are going from a one-route system to a two-parallel-route system and simultaneously making a quantum improvement in cost recovery. Depending on how you read the terms of the Investment Bank proposal, we may be going from one host for-profit landlord track-owning property (CN) to three (CN, "HavelockCorp", and CP in the Montreal and Toronto areas) with two of these being intermingled freight-pax landlords. That just seems to be counter to the whole idea of getting passenger operations off freight lines.

Looking at the half of the glass that is full, if we have a separated "express" through line Toronto-Ottawa and a local "stopping" line Toronto-Kingston-Brockville, we have pretty much laid the precedent for a new HxR line and a parallel local regional line between Toronto and London. That's quite a win.

Bottom line - can't say I don't like it, I just wonder if there will be a reality check one of these days.

- Paul
 
What could possibly be more tailored to Kingston than what they have today?
You almost certainly don't have to look nearly as often at VIA's timetables as I do, but I can very easily imagine quite a few ways in which the timetable could be better tailored to local intercity mobility needs of residents in Kingston - and even more so for the residents of the other cities along the line:

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Note: the number to the right of the station name refers to the number of weekday departures at the corresponding station. The timings of trains 50 and 52 have been removed from the count wherever they are identical with trains 60 and 62 as they are operated as one single train at those stations.
 

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Doesn't show in the City's Heritage Register, but so long as it's in Hydro's hands there is hope that it won't be demolished before the process can be completed. The City's process is hugely backlogged.

Is it on the list to be "Listed" or "Designated" ?

- Paul

PS - I'm also on a Heritage Preservation Panel, for Etobicoke-York

The lesser of the two, although I may have only seen a draft report requesting the inclusion. I should probably shift over to the Etobicoke-York panel seeing as that's where I've lived the last 2 years, but not sure the process for doing so.
 
Ah yes, I forgot Mulroney actually ran on restoring some cancelled VIA services - before proceeding to massacre them much worse a few years later.

Gosh, I'm not sure I've seen that timetable collection before. "Ours"?

Wonderful, webs.com is blocked for me, for "computer hacking". Sigh ... only got Earth on the work laptop.

Gosh, doesn't this 1977 "VIA" map make you weep:

View attachment 115524
Interesting how the Saint John route went through Maine! I assume it didn't stop in the U.S.?
 
Interesting how the Saint John route went through Maine! I assume it didn't stop in the U.S.?

The 1977 map doesn't also show some Ontario routes - the still-operating CN trains to Windsor via Brantford and via Kitchener, the CP line to Peterborough, and the ONR line to Timmins. (Toronto-North Bay-Porquis Junction had two trains a day at the time - one continued to Cochrane, the other to Timmins.)

The CP Atlantic made several stops in Maine, but it sealed through passengers' cars so they didn't have to go through customs twice. After Mulroney's 1989-1990 cuts, the Ocean (via Bathurst NB) and the Atlantic (via Sherbrooke and Saint John) ran 3 times a week, on alternating dates. It lasted until 1995, when CP was about to rid itself of the old mainline to Portland ME -- a short line operator took over the route, cut maintenance and labour costs and we know what ended up happening to Lac-Megantic. The CN route, the Ocean went to 6 days a week until Harper cut that back to 3 days a week.
 
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I would think a train through Maine these days would have to seal entirely, rather than endure CBSA/CBP, especially given CBSA's cash grabbing antics out west before the Olympics.
 
You almost certainly don't have to look nearly as often at VIA's timetables as I do, but I can very easily imagine quite a few ways in which the timetable could be better tailored to local intercity mobility needs of residents in Kingston - and even more so for the residents of the other cities along the line:

A consistent 120-min headway with all trains stopping at both Cobourg and Belleville might be possible after all the through traffic left the line, for sure. VIA has made attempts to normalise the timings over the years, but they never lasted. The lesser stops will never justify better than a couple of trains per day.
That headway would probably be something that would fit on the route with fewer timing issues.
I wonder how the ridership would look for that level of service. If VIA gets its own route, there will be a lot of pressure to get VIA out of CN's way.

- Paul
 
This will be an interesting one to watch. Those words have a lot of subjectivity/spin to them. What could possibly be more tailored to Kingston than what they have today? The "tailoring" has to be code for a takeaway scenario.

You almost certainly don't have to look nearly as often at VIA's timetables as I do, but I can very easily imagine quite a few ways in which the timetable could be better tailored to local intercity mobility needs of residents in Kingston -

I prefer to remain positive until prove wrong. I agree with @Urban Sky that the schedule can be improved to cater to the smaller towns and Kingston. Particularly if the services are split into three: Toronto-Kingston, Kingston-Ottawa and Kingston-Montreal. 2-3 car DMUs on each. 10-12 frequencies per day on each. They can be timed to work better as commuter services and get additional ridership like that.

Today, there are two issues:

1) Train time are optimized for Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal.

2) Since they are long continuous services, the likelihood of disruptions causing cascading delays is high.

Hubbing at Kingston tackles both of these issues.
 
I prefer to remain positive until prove wrong. I agree with @Urban Sky that the schedule can be improved to cater to the smaller towns and Kingston. Particularly if the services are split into three: Toronto-Kingston, Kingston-Ottawa and Kingston-Montreal. 2-3 car DMUs on each. 10-12 frequencies per day on each. They can be timed to work better as commuter services and get additional ridership like that.

Today, there are two issues:

1) Train time are optimized for Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal.

2) Since they are long continuous services, the likelihood of disruptions causing cascading delays is high.

Hubbing at Kingston tackles both of these issues.

There is a similar idea of making Drummundville a Hub for VIA. It was first discussed a few months ago, but it resurfaced in late June.
The first article even mentions having (some? I assume light) maintenance done there and trains parked overnight. Not sure about the real need for maintenance given the the MMC is 90 minutes away.
With 4-4 DMUs, a departure every 2 hours per direction could be achieved with a transfer in Drummundville. It takes about 1 hour to travel from Montreal to Drummundville and 2 hours to Qc-City. One the of articles mentions 8 departures per direction per day (from 5).

https://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http://www.journalexpress.ca/actualites/2017/6/19/projet-de-via-rail---drummondville-vise-toujours-a-devenir-un--h.html

https://translate.google.ca/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http://www.lapresse.ca/le-nouvelliste/actualites/201706/19/01-5108954-trois-rivieres-et-drummondville-embarquent-dans-le-meme-train.php&edit-text=&act=url
 
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The 1977 map doesn't also show some Ontario routes - the still-operating CN trains to Windsor via Brantford and via Kitchener, the CP line to Peterborough, and the ONR line to Timmins. (Toronto-North Bay-Porquis Junction had two trains a day at the time - one continued to Cochrane, the other to Timmins.)

The CP Atlantic made several stops in Maine, but it sealed through passengers' cars so they didn't have to go through customs twice. After Mulroney's 1989-1990 cuts, the Ocean (via Bathurst NB) and the Atlantic (via Sherbrooke and Saint John) ran 3 times a week, on alternating dates. It lasted until 1995, when CP was about to rid itself of the old mainline to Portland ME -- a short line operator took over the route, cut maintenance and labour costs and we know what ended up happening to Lac-Megantic. The CN route, the Ocean went to 6 days a week until Harper cut that back to 3 days a week.
Just reading up on some of the minutia on the routes through Maine, and the local American traffic carried as well as Cdn through passengers, but tripped across this interesting tid-bit:
[...]
Prior to the discontinuance of the Atlantic, CPR announced that it had made an agreement in principle with J.D. Irving Limited to buy the line and operate it as a shortline to be called New Brunswick Southern Railway, however Via was not permitted at this time to operate on a shortline railway. Federal regulations stated that it must operate on one of the two national railways of Canada.
[...]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_(train)
"Shortline" is synonymous with "provincially regulated" in Canada. Has that regulation changed? The Hudson Bay Railway is a "shortline". As might be some investor routes in Ontario (HFR might run over two or more separately owned Rights of Way in two provinces)(this could be the same investors and shell company, but separate divisions for business reasons, not least less regulation and tax rates). Anyone have an answer on whether that regulation has been changed, or is it just not enforced? It could have some interesting ramifications, and for Moose Rail. (Capital Railway {City of Ottawa owned} is federally regulated)
 
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This string has seen a number of posters ruminating about how the locals on the Havelock route would 'resent the noise, disruption and an overall attack on their way of life', not to mention alien invasion and warts.

Via Rail would bring economic benefits, Peterborough County warden says
By Jessica Nyznik, The Peterborough Examiner
Friday, July 21, 2017 6:56:07 EDT PM

Wardens in eastern Ontario are urging government officials to support Via Rail's proposed new passenger train service between Toronto and Quebec City.

The Eastern Ontario Wardens' Caucus (EOWC) is calling on the federal and provincial governments to financially back the project.

Peterborough County Warden Joe Taylor said the caucus discussed Via Rail's High Frequency Rail project during their meeting last month.

They decided to create a resolution to show their support for the project.

"We understand the tremendous economic benefits it will have to our region," Taylor said.

As a well known, credible organization, Taylor said the EOWC wanted to do what they could to push the plan along.

"We thought by perhaps lending support at that level, maybe the feds would take a closer look at it," he said.

EOWC's resolution is circulating through the hands of the MPPs and MPs of the ridings along the proposed corridor, with wardens seeking their support.

Peterborough County already endorsed the project last year, Taylor said and believes it's been backed by all of the municipalities along the route.

"I think it was unanimous support right through to the Quebec border," he said.

The new service line will not only be an important economic driver, but there a lot of other benefits to it, too, Taylor said.

"Not the least of which is the reduction of greenhouse gases."

Via's plan is to use existing or discontinued railroads where it can and run with a new fleet that's a hybrid of diesel and electric.

By using diesel, carbon emissions would be reduced by 10.3 million tonnes by 2050. That's equivalent to taking 2.3 million cars off the road for a year.

When its electrified, carbon emissions would be reduced by 13.9 million by 2050. That's like taking 3.1 million cars off the road for 365 days.

A map of Via's proposed route shows stops in Tweed, Sharbot Lake and Smiths Falls.

Peterborough was already a potential stop on the route, but there's no word on if or when it'll happen.

"There are several options for stops along the route being considered, it would be premature to comment further at this time," stated Mariam Diaby, spokeswoman for Via Rail, in an email.

Via is also taking into account the existing Peterborough-originated Shining Waters Railway plan, which also aimed to provide passenger service from Toronto, Diaby added.

The Crown company's proposal was given to the government in December and is now under review.

The project is expected to cost $5.25 billion and take four years to complete.

Via currently runs service along the lakershore on tracks owned by Canadian National Railway, which limits how often passenger trains can run.

That's why they want to create a new service that will triple the number of trains per day, while reducing trip times by a quarter of the time.

Via Rail discontinued its Toronto-Peterborough passenger rail service in 1989 because it was losing too much money per rider each year. It had about 44,000 riders a year.

JNyznik@postmedia.com

["I think it was unanimous support right through to the Quebec border," (Peterborough County Warden Joe Taylor) said.]
 
This string has seen a number of posters ruminating about how the locals on the Havelock route would 'resent the noise, disruption and an overall attack on their way of life', not to mention alien invasion and warts.



["I think it was unanimous support right through to the Quebec border," (Peterborough County Warden Joe Taylor) said.]

I found two more articles:

Riding the rails VIA Tweed
""I think frankly the possibilities are pretty unlimited - it's a huge opportunity that would bring people to travel to and explore what we have in Hastings County and the surrounding areas. We are pretty fortunate to have Tweed as one of the proposed stops on the route," said Jim Pine, chief administrative officer for Hastings County."
https://www.pressreader.com/canada/the-intelligencer-belleville/20170721/

Via touting new rail line through Tweed, Sharbot Lake
"Frontenac County council endorsed a resolution from the Eastern Ontario Wardens' Caucus (EOWC) that called on the federal and Ontario governments to financially support the project.

The EOWC resolution included a call for the rail line to included stops at smaller centres, like Tweed, in order to enable "the user to have direct and fast access to railway stations and hubs in communities across rural eastern Ontario.""
https://www.insidebelleville.com/ne...ing-new-rail-line-through-tweed-sharbot-lake/
 

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