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Should the megacity stay or be broken up?

Megacity stay or breakup?


  • Total voters
    24
What transit issues does Old Toronto face that is being stymied by the rest of Toronto?
Nothing is emblematic of that as much as the Scarborough Subway. But there's also a need for the backbone of transit to be kicked up, not down, thus the need for a *Super-Region* approach to transit. This might involve huge changes for TTC too, the most obvious being integration of the 'spine' (subway and LRTs) plus GO RER, perhaps more, into one regional system. Buses, beyond express regional ones, are devolved to local accountability. This is hardly revolutionary, being done in many world cities.
 
Might as well cut the bs and start calling it "Make Old Toronto Great Again". The MOTGA enthusiasts forget that the only reasons our downtown isn't a burned out Detroit-style shell is because we have good integration with our exurbs and suburbs, and because of a thriving CBD filled with workers who don't live downtown. The rest is a studied avoidance of conflict by pretending you don't need to work with people who might have different civic priorities.
 
Den, the number of votes in your poll show necessary interest. You don't have to account for your impetus on this to certain posters.

You're missing the point. Nobody said that he and others couldn't beat the dead horse. Power to them - to each their own. The point is that he we typically avoid creating new threads when active threads on a topic already exist.

ETA: New Year's resolution to be less snarky.
 
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because of a thriving CBD
To term the core a "CBD" unless you're Ozzy, is completely missing the point. The core of Toronto now has an urban density higher than ever before and growing. The services needed and those not (like cars and roads) are very different from the burbs. Since you use a term the Ozzies still use (it used to be used in planning in North Am but has lost it's 'mojo') Melbourne might be a good study. In the "CBD" in Melbourne, for instance, trams are free.
 
You're missing the point. Nobody said that he and others couldn't beat the dead horse. Power to them - to each their own. The point is that he we typically avoid creating new threads when active threads on a topic already exist.
I see. So there aren't parallel threads on GO, cycling, and all manner of other topics? And why are you here except to prove yourself unable to follow your own missives?
 
Nothing is emblematic of that as much as the Scarborough Subway. But there's also a need for the backbone of transit to be kicked up, not down, thus the need for a *Super-Region* approach to transit. This might involve huge changes for TTC too, the most obvious being integration of the 'spine' (subway and LRTs) plus GO RER, perhaps more, into one regional system. Buses, beyond express regional ones, are devolved to local accountability. This is hardly revolutionary, being done in many world cities.
None of what you are saying would be solved by de-amalgamation. The City of Scarborough would still want to build a subway, and Old Toronto would be mostly sidelined from the discussion. "Kicking up" Transit isn't an amalgamation issue, it's Old Toronto playing hardball with the region.
 
"Kicking up" Transit isn't an amalgamation issue, it's Old Toronto playing hardball with the region.
Well Picard, it's worked wonders in many other world cities. You and others still fail to understand the model of *increasing* some regional powers, like transportation and massive works projects (sewers, airports, etc) and de-amalgamating (devolving) local issues to local civic governments.

Frankly, much of the problem lies with Queen's Park in failing to put necessary agencies like Metrolinx at arm's length. I'll further detail that later when time permits.
 
I see. So there aren't parallel threads on GO, cycling, and all manner of other topics? And why are you here except to prove yourself unable to follow your own missives?

Sigh.

(Never click the "show ignored content" link. Never click the "show ignored content" link. Never click the "show ignored content" link. Never ...)
 
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Den, the number of votes in your poll show necessary interest. You don't have to account for your impetus on this to certain posters.
Den:
Just getting some background reading in on this, and a study from the Fraser Institute (needless to say, well to the right) not only makes the point that the cause d'etre of Harris' amalgamation was never realized, in fact the opposite (savings through efficiency of delivery of services), the very thing that we discussed prior in another forum (fragmented transportation) resented itself in the Montreal model:

http://news.nationalpost.com/toront...-institute-says-yes-but-doesnt-mean-it-should

Which brings me back to
I repeat, no-one is proposing that, but what has been discussed prior, and makes even more sense looking at how other developed nations with greater populations and densities have handled this, is to form a *super-region* that handles the transportation issues that transcend regions, let alone municipal borders.

Btw: The link for the report in the FP article is dead. Here is a live one, I'm reading the report now:
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/de-amalgamation-in-canada.pdf

Transit issues to start. Expressway tolls, planning, services. I'll itemize further later, but the huge one right now is transit.
fair enough.

Okay, but that couldn't be done in the context of the existing thread on amalgamation, where people have already been belabouring this issue?
Fair enough. My apologies. I'll look next time.

Might as well cut the bs and start calling it "Make Old Toronto Great Again". The MOTGA enthusiasts forget that the only reasons our downtown isn't a burned out Detroit-style shell is because we have good integration with our exurbs and suburbs, and because of a thriving CBD filled with workers who don't live downtown. The rest is a studied avoidance of conflict by pretending you don't need to work with people who might have different civic priorities.
Downtown Detroit is making a comeback actually. And its not like the megacity has been the answer to all the issues. Most of our dangerous areas are in the suburbs .
 
Quick post to move the discussion forward, not rehash, and this was mentioned in the now moribund prior amalg thread:
Is it time to create a super-Metro?
Regional government could play a huge role in helping the GTA compete globally.

By Greg Spencer, TorStar
Tues., May 17, 2016

A recent article in The New York Times praised the former Metro Toronto regional government for laying the groundwork for the city’s current prosperity while helping to prevent the sort of local schisms that have damaged many cities in the U.S.

Although the former Metro government eventually gave way to an amalgamated Toronto, it provided much of the critical infrastructure that is now foundational to the local economy.

Mississauga is currently dealing with a similar scenario, having built to its boundaries. Mayor Bonnie Crombie recently proposed that her city leave the Region of Peel and encouraged its neighbour, Brampton, to do the same.

Though Metro Toronto, and even Peel Region, may have outgrown their usefulness, it is time we give upper tier municipal government a major rethink rather than throwing it out altogether.

Toronto Mayor John Tory has just returned from a trade mission that took him to Silicon Valley and Asia. On the tour, he didn’t just tout his own city, but the larger region stretching to Kitchener-Waterloo. This is the right way to go.

Our research at the Martin Prosperity Institute shows that economic competition is now primarily between cities rather than countries. To be successful in this environment, Toronto and its neighbours need to find a way to erase local divisions and solve their problems together. To be sure, there are organizations such as the Toronto Region Board of Trade that are already leading this charge. Similarly, Metrolinx on transportation and the Ontario Growth Secretariat on planning issues also work at this scale. [...]
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/05/17/is-it-time-to-create-a-super-metro.html

All fodder for discussion, and other regions in the US, UK, Europe, Australasia are approaching or have already instituted same.

As that pertains to transit, Transport for London is reversing the privatization of a number of commuter lines that not only operate within Greater London, but in surrounding areas feeding into London. Posted are a couple of older (within a year) references, but with ongoing strikes right now, it's become an immediate flashpoint for change:
Accelerate TfL takeover of Southern train services – MPs
MPs have called on the government to accelerate a proposed takeover of Southern metropolitan services by Transport for London, as the train operating company Govia Thameslink Railway prepares to cut back its timetable by 350 trains a day.

An early-day motion sponsored by Labour former shadow business secretary Chuka Umunna, and backed by MPs of other parties in affected constituencies, has added to opposition calls to strip GTR of its franchise. It proposed that TfL run the trains instead by adding them to its London Overground network.[...]
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...e-tfl-takeover-of-southern-train-services-mps

TfL's London Overground is being given control over London's entire suburban rail network
The Tube map is likely to be redesigned to accomodate the lines

Thursday 21 January 2016 UK Independent

London’s entire suburban railway network will be handed to Transport for London to be run by the capital’s Mayor, it has been announced.

TfL currently runs the Tube network and London Overground services, but the capital’s extensive above-ground rail network has long been under the control of a patchwork of competing private franchises.

Under the new plan, all suburban lines in the capital will be integrated into TfL’s Overground network as their current franchises expire, the city’s Evening Standard reports.
[...]
The change will see the Southeastern franchise taken over as early as 2018, with Thameslink, Great Northern, and Southern put under public control in 2021.

The newspaper says the timing of the incorporation of the South West Trains is currently under negotiation but that it could be handed to the Mayor as early as 2019. [...]
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ns-entire-suburban-rail-network-a6824761.html

Even though the UK is devolving to "regional government" (and that will be further exacerbated and complicated with Brexit) rail is a national competence with, over time, varying degrees of urban autonomy. It's not a linear comparison to Ontario, but the point is very clear as that pertains to "Super Region" competency in some areas, notably transport/transit. I'll post other examples later, as the UK in general has become incredibly inefficient in delivering rail services, now touted to cost *five times* that of equiv Euro Mainland service. No wonder London (and surrounding counties) wants to take control.

The TTC is a mess, albeit not entirely of its own making, and Metrolinx could be any more of a political football for Queen's Park that it now is. It's time to for the GTHA "super-region" to handle transit, transportation and services in a region wide manner, and devolve local matters to local boroughs.

This isn't a question of 'de-amalgamation'...it's one of 'reformation' in a much more modern and meaningful way.

Addendum: A quick description of how London UK is governed:
Local government
Main articles: Local government in London, History of local government in London, and List of heads of London government
The administration of London is formed of two tiers—a citywide, strategic tier and a local tier. Citywide administration is coordinated by the Greater London Authority (GLA), while local administration is carried out by 33 smaller authorities.[98] The GLA consists of two elected components; the Mayor of London, who has executive powers, and the London Assembly, which scrutinises the mayor's decisions and can accept or reject the mayor's budget proposals each year. The headquarters of the GLA is City Hall, Southwark; the mayor is Sadiq Khan, the first Muslim mayor of a major Western capital.[99][100] The mayor's statutory planning strategy is published as the London Plan, which was most recently revised in 2011.[101] The local authorities are the councils of the 32 London boroughs and the City of London Corporation.[102] They are responsible for most local services, such as local planning, schools, social services, local roads and refuse collection. Certain functions, such as waste management, are provided through joint arrangements. In 2009–2010 the combined revenue expenditure by London councils and the GLA amounted to just over £22 billion (£14.7 billion for the boroughs and £7.4 billion for the GLA).[103]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London#Local_government

To bring that all back to Ontario: Is it time for a complete re-write of the Ont Muni Act and subsidiary Toronto, Hamilton, etc ones? Absolutely, it's *beyond time*, and for the OMB. And with that integration of the TTC (in part) with a regional transit authority? (Been done before, became political football). Metrolinx must be devolved from Queen's Park for integration to work.

Ultimately, Ontario has made the mess that Toronto (and other conurbations) are in right now. And again, nothing shows that as prominently as transit and transportation.

To be cont'd...
 
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Well Picard, it's worked wonders in many other world cities. You and others still fail to understand the model of *increasing* some regional powers, like transportation and massive works projects (sewers, airports, etc) and de-amalgamating (devolving) local issues to local civic governments.

I don't know who you're talking to, as I never gave an opinion as to regional transit. Try to follow along.

Frankly, much of the problem lies with Queen's Park in failing to put necessary agencies like Metrolinx at arm's length. I'll further detail that later when time permits.

This has nothing to do with amalgamation.

So again, what are the issues that Old Toronto is facing that has been stymied by amalgamation?
You've proven transit isn't one of them already, so let's not list that again.
 

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