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Toronto Pearson International Airport

I use West Jet and Air Transat usually exclusively, so I never really experienced Terminal 1 apart from the Arrivals area and the concourse near UPX. I flew Air Canada last week and was blown away by the T1 international departure lounges compared to T3 - truly night and day.
 
mjl08 said:
I use West Jet and Air Transat usually exclusively, so I never really experienced Terminal 1 apart from the Arrivals area and the concourse near UPX. I flew Air Canada last week and was blown away by the T1 international departure lounges compared to T3 - truly night and day.
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They're also 20 years apart in construction.....
 
gweed123 said:
It would also mean that all local trains into Toronto and Montreal would pass by their respective airports before their final destinations in the city centres.
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I don't think this should be a goal. Keep in mind that airport access is turning into a goal for Pearson. And ditto for Montreal at the other end. There's already shuttle buses from Ottawa VIA station to Dorval/Trudeau.

Regular hourly HFR service can replace a good chunk of air traffic in that region. The VIA station there has to be better integrated though. It's a terrible location for the airport.
 
TOareaFan said:
They should renovate T3....maybe, even, reinvent it? ;)
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It'll be replaced when they expand T1.

Personally, I wish they'd accelerate their capital plan and do this. But without substantial reduction in federal rent, such an idea would mean higher user fees. Not good for Pearson and the GTA.
 
Red October said:
Reading the Pearson Airport master plan made me laugh, they talk about Pier G being needed by 2014...
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No one in the airline industry would have predicted a few things that has shifted the airline industry. First is the tragedy of 9/11 which set back growth by about 3-5 years.

The second is the shift to larger planes. In 2007 there were about 73 passengers per movement. The master plan predicted 78 by 2020 and 82 by 2030. Pearson had 41M passengers in 2015 with 440k movements (93 passengers per movement). A huge shift...they predicted a pretty reasonable shift but no one would predict the massive shift that occurred.

In fact if you look at the past 3 years growth it is at 5-6%. Extrapolating to 2020 it is expected that the airport will hit 52M passengers...just a bit higher than what is in the plan. But this will need 100k less movements than predicted.

What does this mean? YYZ needs all the infrastructure, retail, waiting areas, baggage processing and security as if we had Pier G but not the gates. They have been able to reconfigure the interior to fit the people without the huge capital outlay.
 
muller877 said:
No one in the airline industry would have predicted a few things that has shifted the airline industry. First is the tragedy of 9/11 which set back growth by about 3-5 years.

The second is the shift to larger planes. In 2007 there were about 73 passengers per movement. The master plan predicted 78 by 2020 and 82 by 2030. Pearson had 41M passengers in 2015 with 440k movements (93 passengers per movement). A huge shift...they predicted a pretty reasonable shift but no one would predict the massive shift that occurred.

In fact if you look at the past 3 years growth it is at 5-6%. Extrapolating to 2020 it is expected that the airport will hit 52M passengers...just a bit higher than what is in the plan. But this will need 100k less movements than predicted.

What does this mean? YYZ needs all the infrastructure, retail, waiting areas, baggage processing and security as if we had Pier G but not the gates. They have been able to reconfigure the interior to fit the people without the huge capital outlay.
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Exactly. The US changed the rules for the Airline Transport Pilot's License. While at the same time training costs have gone up, while pilot pay has beeing stagnant. This is creating massive shortages in pilot candidates. Which also coincided until very recently with higher fuel costs. All that means that larger airplanes and less frequencies are essential to keeping an airline alive, let alone profitable.

If you look at Air Canada, every replacement aircraft ordered is one size larger than the one it replaced. Other carriers are doing the same.

This completely changes airport development as well. The GTAA thought they'd have way more regional jets than they do in the future. They really do need to update that the Master Plan.
 
I agree. The move to larger aircraft has reduced the number of gates needed, and the # of Flights per hour. However the increased capacity of each aircraft also means that there is more space need at the terminal, at gate waiting areas, in customs halls, at shopping/food shops, etc.

Using Mullers numbers the move from 73 passengers per plane to 93 means that the same number of passengers are being moved with 8 flights now vs 7 flights previously (~650) however we still need the terminal space to hold those passengers even if the extra gate is not needed
 
kEiThZ said:
I don't think this should be a goal. Keep in mind that airport access is turning into a goal for Pearson. And ditto for Montreal at the other end. There's already shuttle buses from Ottawa VIA station to Dorval/Trudeau.

Regular hourly HFR service can replace a good chunk of air traffic in that region. The VIA station there has to be better integrated though. It's a terrible location for the airport.
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I'm thinking more for the intermediate stations between the major cities though. For example, a passenger from Peterborough who's flying out of Pearson. Being able to take a Via train directly to Pearson, and then catching their international flight. The express trips between TOM can bypass the airports, obviously, but I think there's an advantage to having the milk run trains make stops at that respective city's major airport.
 
Woodbridge_Heights said:
I agree. The move to larger aircraft has reduced the number of gates needed, and the # of Flights per hour. However the increased capacity of each aircraft also means that there is more space need at the terminal, at gate waiting areas, in customs halls, at shopping/food shops, etc.

Using Mullers numbers the move from 73 passengers per plane to 93 means that the same number of passengers are being moved with 8 flights now vs 7 flights previously (~650) however we still need the terminal space to hold those passengers even if the extra gate is not needed
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True, but the move is probably a good thing - terminal space can always be upgraded to handle more passengers, harder to increase the number of aircraft movement. So in essence the airport is being used more efficiently than expected.

AoD
 
kEiThZ said:
If you look at Air Canada, every replacement aircraft ordered is one size larger than the one it replaced. Other carriers are doing the same.
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Sidenote: I remember being surprised when I read that Air Canada doesn't fly any "jumbo jets" (aka 747s, A380s, etc.)
 
Red October said:
Sidenote: I remember being surprised when I read that Air Canada doesn't fly any "jumbo jets" (aka 747s, A380s, etc.)
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They fly a number of 777's which may as well be considered jumbo (AC flies their 777's in a configuration that seats up to 350 passengers while a 747 in a typical configuration carries 416 passengers not much of a difference) plus the 747 is being phased out by most airlines anyway. The A380 on the other hand is a huge spread, but I can't think of any route between toronto and somewhere else that would fill an A380. Maybe the London route which they currently have 4 daily flights to Heathrow on 787's and 777's, so that's about 1000 passengers, however you lose the convenience of having multiple departure options for passengers.
 
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