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Toronto Pearson International Airport
- Thread starter p5connex
- Start date
TransitBart
Senior Member
Rest assured. As a regular user of T1, they are pushing the limits without Pier G. The place is packed and not nearly as easy to use as at its opening in 2005. Using the tiny, cramped regional jet arm is a dingy. dark experience, and the USA flights being shifted up and down Pier F is a pain.
kEiThZ
Superstar
AC has gone to ten-abreast seating and 31" seat pitch on their 777s. They can now fit 450 passengers on there. More than many carriers operating a 747. Indeed, the 777 is in the same design category as past 747 models, with the exception of the currently sold 747-8 and the A380:
http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/commercial/airports/faqs/aircraftdesigngroup.pdf
AC could support A380s. Just not at the profit levels they want. Why do you think they are lobbying so hard to keep Emirates restricted to 3 slots per week at Pearson?
The big problem at Pearson is that the medium sized gates haven't kept up. Since the GTAA planned for the regional jet boom. And you're already starting to see gate delays if you land during peak. They really should take a look at the Master Plan again.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
Somebody thinks that Toronto - Dubai is a 380 worthy route
This is true. However there are a couple distinctions between Emirates and Air Canada. First is fleet commonality EK has 88 total 380's while AC at most might have a handful, there are economics in keeping the fleet simple with common aircraft. Second Emirates is using the 380 to feed it's Hub in Dubai, much the same way that AC is trying to grow Pearson into a global hub except that the connections onward from Pearson are smaller than at Dubai, plus Pearson has more local competition in this area from JFK/Dulles/O Hare.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
Whoops looks like my math was a little off
Pier G needs to be expedited. It would just simplify operations so much having a dedicated US Transborder pier, then GTAA can also look at Pier F and ways to open up the space there.
cd concept
Senior Member
What's the time frame in getting pier G up and running?
rbt
Senior Member
Unknown. It'll depend on whether they stick with the original plan (unlikely) or choose a larger design similar to pier F (construction start in 2004, opened in Feb 2007). There was a lot of prep/design work that took place before construction began.
In short, I'd say opening in 2020 at the absolute earliest and that's only if they're well into design.
cd concept
Senior Member
Is there any info on the new design or renderings of pier G ? If so do you think it would interrupt pier H and I plans?
rbt
Senior Member
No, they've not released anything publicly. They should have a new 20+ year masterplan but it's not out yet either. So, there is nothing official.
Rumours (from folks working at engineering consulting firms), however, are that they're looking at making pier G similar to pier F which would indeed require a complete rethink of pier H and I (as in there might not be room for one of them). A large pier G would better suit growth in international flights (more very large aircraft) where H/I were designed for regional sized aircraft.
That said, that entire large pier G thing may just have been exploratory; an exercise deemed infeasible which they've dumped since those rumours spread.
cd concept
Senior Member
Since this airport is basically in a centralized location of the GTA . And they want to expand it to handle 60 to 90 million passengers a year. I think expropriating some or all of the light industrial commercial lands sandwiched between Airport Rd, 409 and the 427. Would be and ideal location for more piers to expand around the huge parking structure. Just run Airport Rd under the tarmac etc. Also expanding terminal 3 piers to the north by moving some hangers etc to another location would also be ideal too !
Burnt creek
New Member
Somebody thinks that Toronto - Dubai is a 380 worthy route
Emerites, is unique. Much like a few other airliners from the gulf that benefit (directly or indirectly) from petro dollars there is very little financial and equity transparency from these airline companies. They (emerites) are the only ones loading up on A380's like they are candy canes at the county fair. Who really knows if they viable or not on a route by route basis. But what is clear is that all these A380's are doing is flooding the market(s) with capacity and hence driving out competitors. Competitors who dont have the same corporate structure and have to report to sharholders annualy. Its predatory, and that why governments are faced with pressures to keep them out. Some have speculated that by buying all these A380, they have bought concessions from certain european governments in regards to landing slots allotments.
In short, the fact that one or two of these entities have been buying up these A380's does not necessary mean that the program has proven successfull or that there is viable business case for owning this kind of aircraft except for some in very specific hub operations like small south asisan markets. No airliners in the americas owns or has had any interest in the A380.
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Burnt creek
New Member
There is no need to expropriate anything. If you go to the far end of terminal 1 where the lounge and big windows are, you can see a large swath of land that is already excavated and ready (i would assume) for construction. The tarmac space is there, so it looks like all that they need to do for pier G, H, and I is to start building.
In regards to the north side if T3, there are already gate there and they are being used.
dowlingm
Senior Member
The Emirates route is an A380 because AC objected when they asked for more than 4 slots a week, so EK opted to make the most of what they got.
https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.925223?client=safari
https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.925223?client=safari
Burnt creek
New Member
Perhaps. But given that Emerites has 92 A380's in their fleet, and another 50 on order, chances are that had the federal government granted them more slots, they would still be flying A380's into Pearson. But we dont know. They are going to have 142 of these, the next in rank is Singapore airlines with 24. Then there are a few of large international carriers with about a dozen. They (emerites) only fly widebodies so it doesnt change my argument that Toronto dubai is not a necessarily viable route with a 380.
http://www.airfleets.net/exploit/production-a380.htm
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Airbus_A380_orders_and_deliveries
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cd concept
Senior Member
Yes I understand what your trying to say that they're is extra room for build pier G, H ad I. I've seen the drawings on the Toronto Pearson's Master Plan chapter 6 passenger terminal page. I was just imagining the thought of a longer term expansion for pier l or maybe even J to be built other side of Airport rd. on those lands. That would really make the airport look like a huge airline hub bordering all those highways around it. As it can be seen on Google earth.
If there going to create density in the GTA . Might as well intensify this airport by expanding around it. Instead of building another airport (Pickering) in the GTA. Leaving Hamilton and Kitchener to expand in the Golden Horseshoe creating a future airline metrolinx style!