Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[ehlow]

If a small % of users get away with not paying, but as a result buses & streetcars are faster, more reliable and have smaller dwell time, then to me that seems worth it.

The TTC is a public service who's primary mission is moving people effectively. Proof of payment happens all over, when you get on a bus in San Francisco you don't need to show anyone any pass or payment.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I still think the most powerful tool in PoP fare collection is that the vast majority of people believe that they should pay the fare for the service they receive.

I really don't see why you wouldn't pay a fare when ridding public transit it just makes it cost more for those of us who are honest.

 

[nfitz]

I really don't see why you wouldn't pay a fare when ridding public transit it just makes it cost more for those of us who are honest.

Probably for the same reason that one would steal a loaf of bread. Perhaps for someone, it's either pay the fare or have something to eat for supper.

In which case who would take away someone's food, so that the person earning hundreds of dollars a day doesn't feel cheated? Well, Stephen Harper perhaps ... but who else?

But in general, you are right. Most go out of their way to do the right thing.

 

[ehlow]

People can already jump over turnstiles or walk into a subway station through the bus bay area without paying (and some probably do)

 

[W. K. Lis]

Once all the bus and streetcar routes switch over to PRESTO, there will be a lot, a great deal lot, more fare inspectors. Currently, they may end up on a bus in the far corners Scarborough, along with no fare inspector. After PRESTO, we can expect to see a fare inspector on any bus or streetcr. Expect something this, okay not exactly like this:

 

[nfitz]

There's no plan to make the buses POP that I know of. So there'd be no use of a fare inspector on a bus, as you may not have anything to show them, if you paid cash, and aren't transferring.

 

[NotMathematical]

There's no plan to make the buses POP that I know of. So there'd be no use of a fare inspector on a bus, as you may not have anything to show them, if you paid cash, and aren't transferring.

There is a plan to install PRESTO readers at all bus doors. All door boarding may occur at key stops to alleviate congestion at the front door. Yet all door boarding hasn't been confirmed by the TTC. Would be useful though.

 

[nfitz]

There is a plan to install PRESTO readers at all bus doors. All door boarding may occur at key stops to alleviate congestion at the front door. Yet all door boarding hasn't been confirmed by the TTC. Would be useful though.

That's an interesting detail. There's nothing in the budget for fare inspectors though. And you'd have to do that.

So what's going on here? Is it just contingency for occasional usage, and for when buses are running on POP routes like 504? Is it for those who are boarding at a subway station, to refresh their tap on, so that when they are transferring to an intersecting route, it knows you were on the first bus?

They've never explained how they are going to implement the transfer table with Presto if they don't introduce a 2-hour window. Possibly if you are going to transfer buses, you will have to tap out of the one bus, so it knows where you got off, to make sure you tap on at an appropriate stop.

Very interesting. Time will tell ...

 

[smably]

I have trouble imagining how the current transfer rules could be enforced with Presto. What happens when the GPS on one of the vehicles isn't working properly? I seem to remember based on Steve Munro's analysis that a number of buses and streetcars regularly show up somewhere in Lake Ontario. What happens if there's a gap in service and you have to wait at your transfer point for half an hour? When does your transfer time out? Does the next vehicle have to know where all the other vehicles on the route are, so it knows if you cheated with a free stopover instead of catching the next vehicle on the route? How would in-station transfers work? Would you have to tap out of the subway and tap on to the vehicle even when it was inside a station? (Otherwise, your tap-out to transfer would look like a tap-on.)

I don't think they're going to be able to solve all the edge cases -- my money is on an inevitable switch to timed transfers.

 

[muller877]

Probably for the same reason that one would steal a loaf of bread. Perhaps for someone, it's either pay the fare or have something to eat for supper.

In which case who would take away someone's food, so that the person earning hundreds of dollars a day doesn't feel cheated? ...

But in general, you are right. Most go out of their way to do the right thing.

So shoplifters and thief's are all destitute? You may want to take off those rose coloured glasses.

We live in a society that respects the rule of the law. If people do not respect the rule of the law then they should be punished regardless of the rationale that they use to justify it.

We are also a caring society that generally helps those that have real needs (you may state that you do not think its enough support but there is a support system...and I assume if you don't think its enough you are volunteering/donating to the cause).

 

[nfitz]

I have trouble imagining how the current transfer rules could be enforced with Presto.

So do I. But the contract that Metrolinx signed, requires it to implement the current transfer rules.

I don't think they're going to be able to solve all the edge cases -- my money is on an inevitable switch to timed transfers.

That's going to cost money though ... was it $20 or $30 million a year? If Metrolinx can't meet the terms of their contract and implement it - who pays?

 

[nfitz]

So shoplifters and thief's are all destitute?

Where did I say that? The comment I replied to was "I really don't see why you wouldn't pay a fare when ridding public transit ". Offering a reason why some people might not pay a fare, doesn't mean that all are in that category. That's a hefty leap.

We live in a society that respects the rule of the law.

Are we? So no one speeds? No one texts while at a red light? No one ever goes through a stop light without coming to a complete stop?

My glasses might not be rose-coloured - but perhaps yours are!

 

[TOareaFan]

Where did I say that? The comment I replied to was "I really don't see why you wouldn't pay a fare when ridding public transit ". Offering a reason why some people might not pay a fare, doesn't mean that all are in that category. That's a hefty leap.

Are we? So no one speeds? No one texts while at a red light? No one ever goes through a stop light without coming to a complete stop?

My glasses might not be rose-coloured - but perhaps yours are!

People find all sorts of reasons to justify their own brands of stealing. I still can't get my head around things like people using their $800 phones to find places to download copyrighted content for free. Thankfully for this discussion fewer people view transit rides as they do music/movies.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

People can already jump over turnstiles or walk into a subway station through the bus bay area without paying (and some probably do)

yup seen both never done either only time I've gotten on with out paying was due to special events like the papal mass or when the collector was out of weekly pases

 

[TOareaFan]

Had my first presto hardware failure experience the other night....tapped at St Andrew got the big check mark...but the turnstile did not unlock for me....was in a bit of a rush so I thought i would just pay again..but the second tap didn't work (guess system knew I had already tapped)...had to go and line up to tell my story to the station attendant....guess she believed my story and let me through (she did ask which turnstile/presto machine failed as she let me through).