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Your thoughts on French Immersion?

Some provinces offer immersion programs for languages other than French. I know a woman living in Alberta who is sending her daughter to a Spanish program. This is at a public school.
 
prosperegal said:
Some provinces offer immersion programs for languages other than French. I know a woman living in Alberta who is sending her daughter to a Spanish program. This is at a public school.
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Spanish makes sense. In all my years of export sales the one place where leaders of business did not speak English was in South America. I had no problem in China, where everyone spoke English, and in Europe everyone in business speaks English.
 
Johnny Au said:
Leamington, ON is the municipality with the highest percentage of those who speak only Spanish in Canada (which has been discussed in another thread).

It would be interesting if schools there have Spanish immersion.
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I'm not sure if parents in such families would WANT their children in a mostly Spanish program opposed to English or a mostly English, yet still bilingual program. You DO want your children to know how to speak at least ONE of our official languages - and perhaps without a trace of an accent. That's EXACTLY why my parents never taught me ANY English. I asked them why when I was a teenager, and they said they DID NOT want me to pick up ANY TRACE of their accent (there were first generation CBCs in my Grade 1 class still with slight traces of a HK accent. I don't think they lost it until at least Grade 2).
 
That is smart. I know it's bad form in this PC world we live in, but whenever I call sales, tech support or customer service at any of my various providers, I often sigh in relief when the agent speaks in clear, unaccented English, and quickly terminate communications if I can not easily understand what is being said or be understood. Of course I make an exception for anyone speaks British/ANZ English, as that's an accent that takes me back to my origins.

Accent discrimination, along with body image, does seem to be one of the last legally permitted non-performance related employment criteria, such as seen here http://www.citynews.ca/2015/08/19/e...ts-with-no-audible-accent-causes-stir-online/
 
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prosperegal said:
I'm not sure if parents in such families would WANT their children in a mostly Spanish program opposed to English or a mostly English, yet still bilingual program. You DO want your children to know how to speak at least ONE of our official languages - and perhaps without a trace of an accent. That's EXACTLY why my parents never taught me ANY English. I asked them why when I was a teenager, and they said they DID NOT want me to pick up ANY TRACE of their accent (there were first generation CBCs in my Grade 1 class still with slight traces of a HK accent. I don't think they lost it until at least Grade 2).
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There's a pretty common finding according to linguistics/psychology research that children, for the most part, pick up the speech styles and accents of their peers in the long term, not their parents. That's why children born to immigrant parents who themselves completely cannot speak the native language of an area, can still learn to speak completely like a native as long as they are surrounded by and grow up with native speakers all around them. Provided that the peer group they interact with in said language, and socialize with in the wider society during their formative years is primarily that of native speakers outside the home, there's not particularly strong evidence that an extra or different language spoken inside the home hinders development. Young children's language learning abilities are incredibly flexible and switching between languages/dialects or overall talking styles in different places, like inside and outside the home, is very common worldwide.

Admiral Beez said:
That is smart. I know it's bad form in this PC world we live in, but whenever I call sales, tech support or customer service at any of my various providers, I often sigh in relief when the agent speaks in clear, unaccented English, and quickly terminate communications if I can not easily understand what is being said or be understood. Of course I make an exception for anyone speaks British/ANZ English, as that's an accent that takes me back to my origins.

Accent discrimination, along with body image, does seem to be one of the last legally permitted non-performance related employment criteria, such as seen here http://www.citynews.ca/2015/08/19/e...ts-with-no-audible-accent-causes-stir-online/
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Technically, everyone has an accent though -- it's just a matter of what accent. A Newfoundland accent is just as much one as an Australian or Jamaican one, or a "General Standard American" one for that matter -- they all reflect some local area or region where people talk. Would a Yankee or American Midwesterner fail the test for the job ad? If your criteria is "do you talk with the same accent as me, a Torontonian?", well a Texan very well might say no, as would say, perhaps a rural Maritimer. Canadian actors sometimes even have to undergo practice speaking with slightly different accents so that they can play Americans in the movies and indeed even though most North Americans often sound alike, as a Canadian living stateside I can sometimes still hear the way I sound slightly different from certain people in the Midwest area. When I lived in the Northeastern US, I even had one person tell me I have very slight British characteristics in the way I speak (which was puzzling since I've never been to Britain, so they must have been picking up on some Canadianisms). Among Torontonians who all grew up in the same area and who speak English completely natively, you can still notice slight differences in "accent"; for example some people have the stronger stereotypical "Canadian raising" sound, where some people pronounce the vowel in "out" in a more raised way (the sound that's stereotyped as "oot" by Americans, but it isn't particularly close to "oot" at all).

Usually when people mean they're looking for someone with "no audible accent", it means those speaking the same or an indistinguishable accent/dialect from the local area then, since everyone's got "an accent". Unless you're talking about something like performing, acting, radio or show business, however I don't think it's necessary for most jobs. Being able to converse fluently in English is probably enough for most dealings with the public rather than passing exactly like a local in speech.
 
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wild goose chase said:
There's a pretty common finding according to linguistics/psychology research that children, for the most part, pick up the speech styles and accents of their peers in the long term, not their parents. That's why children born to immigrant parents who themselves completely cannot speak the native language of an area, can still learn to speak completely like a native as long as they are surrounded by and grow up with native speakers all around them. Provided that the peer group they interact with in said language, and socialize with in the wider society during their formative years is primarily that of native speakers outside the home, there's not particularly strong evidence that an extra or different language spoken inside the home hinders development. Young children's language learning abilities are incredibly flexible and switching between languages/dialects or overall talking styles in different places, like inside and outside the home, is very common worldwide.



Technically, everyone has an accent though -- it's just a matter of what accent. A Newfoundland accent is just as much one as an Australian or Jamaican one, or a "General Standard American" one for that matter -- they all reflect some local area or region where people talk. Would a Yankee or American Midwesterner fail the test for the job ad? If your criteria is "do you talk with the same accent as me, a Torontonian?", well a Texan very well might say no, as would say, perhaps a rural Maritimer. Canadian actors sometimes even have to undergo practice speaking with slightly different accents so that they can play Americans in the movies and indeed even though most North Americans often sound alike, as a Canadian living stateside I can sometimes still hear the way I sound slightly different from certain people in the Midwest area. When I lived in the Northeastern US, I even had one person tell me I have very slight British characteristics in the way I speak (which was puzzling since I've never been to Britain, so they must have been picking up on some Canadianisms). Among Torontonians who all grew up in the same area and who speak English completely natively, you can still notice slight differences in "accent"; for example some people have the stronger stereotypical "Canadian raising" sound, where some people pronounce the vowel in "out" in a more raised way (the sound that's stereotyped as "oot" by Americans, but it isn't particularly close to "oot" at all).

Usually when people mean they're looking for someone with "no audible accent", it means those speaking the same or an indistinguishable accent/dialect from the local area then, since everyone's got "an accent". Unless you're talking about something like performing, acting, radio or show business, however I don't think it's necessary for most jobs. Being able to converse fluently in English is probably enough for most dealings with the public rather than passing exactly like a local in speech.
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Did you by any chance go to a private school and/or take singing lessons? An ex-boyfriend, who is also a Canadian, once said I sounded slightly British. I'm wondering if 10 years of classical singing lessons (along with many years in a school choir with a British choir director) or my years at BSS have anything to do with it.

I don't understand how our "out and about" sound like "oot" to Americans. It's A LOT closer to OAT.
 
I registered my child in SK FI (TDSB) and I'm happy with the decision; she is now in grade 1. She doesn't have an affinity for languages so I think the earlier the better for her as I don't think she would be successful in extended French starting in grade 4. My real reason for FI was offering something that would be challenging - personally, I found grades 1 through 3 a total waste of time and I didn't want her to have that same experience. I wasn't particularly interested in the fact that she'd be learning French (could have substituted any other type of challenge), but the fact that there was an extra challenge in the grades that concentrated on teaching the basics to kids having trouble meeting standards.
 
Bernoulli said:
My real reason for FI was offering something that would be challenging - personally, I found grades 1 through 3 a total waste of time and I didn't want her to have that same experience. .
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My kids school has now moved teaching of the basics to after school hours. Both my daughters are enrolled in afterschool literacy and numeracy classes, mostly because their friends joined too, but I'm a big fan also. I only wish they'd spend less time on social engineering during the class day and move some of the hard memorization work to the daytime.
 
prosperegal said:
Did you by any chance go to a private school and/or take singing lessons? An ex-boyfriend, who is also a Canadian, once said I sounded slightly British. I'm wondering if 10 years of classical singing lessons (along with many years in a school choir with a British choir director) or my years at BSS have anything to do with it.
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No, actually, I've never attended any private school or went through any vocal/singing training at all. I have no idea where the comparison came from although it was just one comment from one person, and I heard it while in the New England area. I've had at least a couple Americans who've specifically mentioned hearing my Canadian accent but in general I thought I sounded very generically North American in my mind, though I can hear my Canadian raising pretty strongly once someone brought it up.
 
Glad to see you're still active on here, Admiral Beez! I posted a question to you a few weeks ago but will reiterate here.

I'm in the process of deciding between SK FI and Junior Extended French (Gr. 4) for my child. I need to make the decision soon as SK FI applications will be due in December this year. I am curious about how well your kids speak french now, having been in the extended french program for a few years now (what grade are they in now?). Do they have authentic French accents? Are they fluent in French - e.g. think and speak French naturally, without having to translate in their head? Do they still have strong English language skills?

I'm leaning towards Extended French (so my child can be completely engaged in school, communicate complex ideas, and be clearly understood in her native language during her formative early years, and so the 'core' subjects of math and science will always be taught in English). But I'm feeling pangs of guilt and doubt when I hear other parents tell me they are putting their kids in SK F.I., like I'm somehow shortchanging my child from a superior education.

My idea of fluency in French is being able to 'think' in French and understand it naturally, without having to translate in my head. Do you think the Extended French program (gr. 4 start) will give that level of fluency?

Thanks in advance for your reply...
 
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