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York Region Transit: Viva service thread

It's the ol double-fare thing. Someone going from Highway 7 down to Finch pays twice. I'm sure there are discussions of it on other boards here and there. Metrolinx doesn't set YRT's fares, obviously, but it would be a different situation for everyone if Metrolinx implements some sort of distance or zone-based fares...

Cool, thanks. That makes more sense.

Sorry if I missed this, but what is the email address for the Councillors, or where can it be found? It would be handy if everyone here sent them an email indicating their dismay at the fare hike.

All the members of the Regional Council are here. Clicking the links to each city/town will get you to their respective pages. I was going off of the city of Markham page for the e-mails. I don't have the time now, but later tonight I could go through each city website paste all the e-mails here.
 
If they freeze the fares, then they'll probably just cut service levels even more. The ridership is falling - fare revenue is decreasing - they have to make up for it somehow.
 
If they freeze the fares, then they'll probably just cut service levels even more. The ridership is falling - fare revenue is decreasing - they have to make up for it somehow.

Cool, and when ridership drops even further after the fare increase? $5.00 cash fare? Starve the beast indeed...
 
Cool, and when ridership drops even further after the fare increase? $5.00 cash fare? Starve the beast indeed...

Yeah, as I said earlier, YRT is in a downward spiral. They raised fares and cut service too much the past few years, and this is what happens. Maybe the new busways and completion of the subway extension will attract more riders and allow buses to be taken off the road, both of which will save YRT some money. But otherwise, looking at the falling ridership and constant service cuts and fare increases, it seems like transit in York Region is dying.
 
Just posted my new article on my YRT Busways Now page:

Several years ago I saw a comment on an article regarding transit in the US. To roughly quote it, 'Transit sucks because no one takes it. No one takes it because transit sucks.'

Despite investments in infrastructure, there is some sad truth to this here in York Region. Specifically if you do not happen to live along the Yonge St or Highway 7 corridors. Beyond these two avenues, most bus routes operate every 60-90 minutes, perhaps every 30 minutes during the rush hour.

To make matters worse, our fares which happen to be some of the highest on the continent, are looking to increase next year. This is to be coupled with even more service cuts!

The frustrating thing is how short sighted this policy is.

First of all, to quote transit planner and blogger Jarrett Walker, "Frequency means freedom." I recently moved to a location that is closer to Major Mackenzie than Yonge St. However, most of the locations I choose to visit will be on Yonge simply because of how infrequent the Major Mackenzie bus operates.

Let me also add that along the 6km stretch of Major Mac between Bathurst and Leslie, there are two high schools, several shopping plazas both big and small, a GO station with bus terminal, a hospital, library, fire and police stations, a community pool, and even a number of low, mid, and high-rise apartments and condos. Yet only during the heat of rush hour will you find buses running at a measly 20 minute headways.

Worst of all, this strategy of only supporting the Viva corridors ironically hurts their potential growth. There are hundreds of thousands of residents and businesses which are beyond a 5-10 minute walk from a Viva stop, and these places become very inaccessible to transit riders. If these people were interested in using public transit, perhaps using a local bus to connect to a Viva route to take them an extended distance, they won't be bothered if the bus only goes by every 45 minutes or so.

I was told that the region was getting complaints from people seeing empty buses going by, as these people felt it was a waste of tax dollars. Unfortunately investing in transit is not always roses and unicorns. It takes time before people make the switch to transit, especially in a suburban environment. And cutting back the absolute minimum of service will not encourage people to make the switch.

https://www.facebook.com/YRTBN
 
Okay here we go, York Regional Council e-mails:

Aurora
Mayor Geoffrey Dawe: mayor@aurora.ca

East Gwillimbury
Mayor Virginia Hackson: vhackson@eastgwillimbury.ca

Georgina
Mayor Robert Grossi: rgrossi@georgina.ca
Regional Councillor Danny Wheeler (Deputy Mayor): dwheeler@georgina.ca

King
Mayor Steve Pellegrini: spellegrini@king.ca

Markham
Mayor Frank Scarpitti: fscarpitti@markham.ca
Regional Councillor Jack Heath (Deputy Mayor): jheath@markham.ca
Regional Councillor Gordon Landon: glandon@markham.ca
Regional Councillor Jim Jones: jjones@markham.ca
Regional Councillor Joe Li: joeli@markham.ca

Newmarket
Mayor A.J. (Tony) Van Bynen: mayor@newmarket.ca
Regional Councillor John Taylor: jtaylor@newmarket.ca

Richmond Hill
Mayor David Barrow: officemayor@richmondhill.ca
Regional Councillor Vito Spatafora (Deputy Mayor): vspatafora@richmondhill.ca
Regional Councillor Brenda Hogg: bhogg@richmondhill.ca

Vaughan
Mayor Maurizio Bevilacqua: maurizio.bevilacqua@vaughan.ca
Regional Councillor (Deputy Mayor) Gino Rosati: gino.rosati@vaughan.ca
Regional Councillor Michael Di Biase: michael.dibiase@vaughan.ca
Regional Councillor Deb Schulte: deb.schulte@vaughan.ca

Whitchurch-Stouffville
Mayor Wayne Emmerson: mayor.emmerson@townofws.ca
 
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Why do you need so many contact e-mails? You wouldn't need to contact that many Toronto politicians to demand changes to the TTC, even in the old Metro days.
 
Someone asked? I don't know where he or she lives in York, so I just wanted to cover all the bases for everyone.

Unless you are asking why, for example, someone from Markham has 5 possible councillors to contact. If there is a list of regional councillors that are specifically on a transit committee, by all means point me to that instead. In any case, it isn't exactly difficult to contact politicians via e-mail, and I've received responses in a timely and thoughtful manner.
 
If they freeze the fares, then they'll probably just cut service levels even more. The ridership is falling - fare revenue is decreasing - they have to make up for it somehow.

It's not actually falling though, and the flagship VIVA service has seen a lot of growth (16.5% year to date). I know the numbers have under performed expectations, but 4.4% year-to-date growth for all of YRT isn't all that terrible. Aside from where there were strikes, ridership has been on an upward trend the last five years and there's no reason to think ridership will start to shrink.
 
It's not actually falling though, and the flagship VIVA service has seen a lot of growth (16.5% year to date). I know the numbers have under performed expectations, but 4.4% year-to-date growth for all of YRT isn't all that terrible. Aside from where there were strikes, ridership has been on an upward trend the last five years and there's no reason to think ridership will start to shrink.

4.4% YTD is because of the 91% "growth" of January 2013 compared to January 2012 (when the strike was ongoing). That's misleading.

Excluding January, February, and March, the actual YTD "growth" for 2013 is actually -1.8%!

Furthermore, ridership in March 2013 was lower than March 2011, and June 2013 lower than June 2011.

Clearly, the ridership of YRT is falling, or at the very least it is stagnant. Either way it is below expectations, causing a budget shortfall, and YRT is forced either raise fares or cut service or both, unless gets increased subsidy from the Region.
 
4.4% YTD is because of the 91% "growth" of January 2013 compared to January 2012 (when the strike was ongoing). That's misleading.

Excluding January, February, and March, the actual YTD "growth" for 2013 is actually -1.8%!

Furthermore, ridership in March 2013 was lower than March 2011, and June 2013 lower than June 2011.

Clearly, the ridership of YRT is falling, or at the very least it is stagnant. Either way it is below expectations, causing a budget shortfall, and YRT is forced either raise fares or cut service or both, unless gets increased subsidy from the Region.

Fair enough, but I'm still encouraged by the VIVA numbers. I really do hope that as the VIVA backbone strengthens, the connecting neighbourhood service becomes less awful (especially the TTC routes on major corridors like Markham Road). The 2017 service plan will at least provide better access to destinations and workplaces through the Green and Silver routes, so once that's complete, most major destinations in the region will be on VIVA.
 
I think Electrify was on to something when he criticized the focus on VIVA. I think VIVA is the root cause of the problems of YRT. Maybe the ridership of VIVA grew like 10% this year (excluding Jan, Feb, March), but it's a still a black hole on the rest of the system. 29.8k weekday boardings with 116 VIVA buses still seems like mediocre performance (e.g. MT's 19/202 Hurontario/Express managed 25.1k weekday boardings with 30 buses back in 2006). YRT is losing a lot of money from VIVA and I think adding new VIVA routes will just make things even worse.
 
I just think that after 2017 (and to a large extent right now) ultimately most people will end up riding on VIVA for part of their trip, no matter where they're going in York Region. I also don't have all that much sympathy for people who chose to live in sprawly subdivisions around 14th or Major Mac or wherever. Most of the major intensification and population growth (aside from northern Vaughan and places like Stouffville) will be along the VIVA corridors. I'm not suggesting further cuts (nor did I support the cuts that have occurred) to these non-core routes, but the region is absolutely right in my opinion to focus on major corridors and transit-oriented development. Without that strong backbone, what's the point of having more frequent service to neighbourhoods that have nothing other than houses?
 
It's hardly a perfect comparison but if you think of Viva as being the YR equivalent to Toronto's subway (Yonge being Yonge, hwy 7 being Bloor-Danforth) the focus on it makes more sense. Of course, what makes the TTC work (when it works) is how well the buses feed into the subway, which seems to be the rub here, if the local routes are getting cut.

But, I think Canarob has got the idea. There's only so much bus service you can add to get someone in, say, Thornhill Woods or even out in Cornell, to change their lifestyle. Sprawly suburbs are there and they're not going anywhere any time soon.

BUT what Viva does is facilitate new, transit-oriented development, some of which is already underway on both corridors (and, to a lesser extent, up in Newmarket). Time will tell if Markham Centre or VMC or even just the larger corridors develop in the way theywant, but it's definitely short-sighted to look at Viva in terms of what's there now when the whole point is to be the foundation for something new that isn't there yet.

It's a problem in this region that we're so far behind on transit that we've gotten so used to plugging holes in the proverbial dike so people go nuts over a subway "to nowhere" or whatever, but (putting aside, for a moment, how much necessary infrastructure is needed in the urban core) building transit AHEAD of development is actually a good idea, IMHO.
 

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