wilson_wu
Active Member
As a rider of YRT pre-VIVA rider, I think they deliberately slowed down the YRT buses to make VIVA buses appear relatively faster. I remember YRT buses would literally fly down Highway 7 like maniacs in the past.
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York Region Transit: Viva service thread
- Thread starter ShonTron
- Start date
As a rider of YRT pre-VIVA rider, I think they deliberately slowed down the YRT buses to make VIVA buses appear relatively faster. I remember YRT buses would literally fly down Highway 7 like maniacs in the past.
Platform 27
Active Member
I'd suspect that traffic growth in York Region in the past five years is probably a factor. It's also plausible that they've been slowly building in more recovery time every time YRT has been rejigging schedules to move from, say, 30 minute headways to 20 minute ones.
And as just_chillin noted, a side-effect of longer scheduled recovery times are drivers being a little less heavy on the gas pedal when they're mid-run.
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just_chillin
New Member
I agree. And I've made myself heard about that before. Personally I prefer a more realistic "tighter" schedule throughout the trip, and a bit of a longer layover or "recovery" time at the end. Although with GPS working in the entire fleet (aside from a glitch here or there) the region is now finally able to see first hand how long trips are actually taking. So hopefully things will slowly change (and in some cases they already have because of the GPS system!). Even now with the runs I have, I know the timings on all of them, and in many cases what I do (and many other drivers do as well) is leave late from the start of the trip, and therefore can drive normally and minimize holding back during the trip. You can tell me otherwise, but I think that most riders would prefer the driver leave late at the start of the trip (5 to even 10 minutes late) if that means the driver will be driving at a normal speed and not be holding up anywhere (or very minimal anyways). I mean, look at the express routes. Those routes are very popular and more so by middle aged business types. If you can get from Finch Station to the very eastern edge of Markham (9th line to be exact) in 30 minutes (Via Hwy 407) for only $3.50 or less (with tickets or monthly pass) per trip, wouldn't you take that bus as well?
anywayz.. if you got any more questions or need anymore insight let me know.. btw I ain't no old gray haired geezer either.. LOL... (no offence to anyone in the older age bracket)... just saying... I'm most likely around most of your guys ages so I can understand things easy...
xtremesniper
Active Member
Agreed, I'd much rather a "normal" ride and a longer stopover at the end than going 20km/h the whole way. I mean, when the bus is running late, you should see how capable the YRT is of driving fast and efficient. They properly merge quickly from a traffic light, they quickly load and unload people, and they drive at the speed limit (!). That's how they should be driving ALL the time, as far as I'm concerned.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when the Viva started they didn't have any set schedule to go by. They simply had a start and end time, and everything in between was just a promise to have a certain spacing between buses. Why couldn't we implement that kind of system with YRT? With the live timing of the routes now implemented, we don't really need "schedules" if everyone had a quick and easy way to check when the next bus is coming. That's how people ride the Viva (even now that they have schedules, which I doubt they follow them anyway). When I take the YRT to a Viva route, I know that I have this "undetermined" amount of wait time that I will find out when I get to the stop, and that it won't be anything more than 15 minutes unless there is a problem.
If implemented properly, that kind of system may be better than these scheduled systems because the buses will have to stay a certain timed distance away from the bus ahead of them, and the bus behind them. That would constantly keep the buses in check. (This was kind of rushed logic, as I'm just typing this quickly... so it can be refined later).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when the Viva started they didn't have any set schedule to go by. They simply had a start and end time, and everything in between was just a promise to have a certain spacing between buses. Why couldn't we implement that kind of system with YRT? With the live timing of the routes now implemented, we don't really need "schedules" if everyone had a quick and easy way to check when the next bus is coming. That's how people ride the Viva (even now that they have schedules, which I doubt they follow them anyway). When I take the YRT to a Viva route, I know that I have this "undetermined" amount of wait time that I will find out when I get to the stop, and that it won't be anything more than 15 minutes unless there is a problem.
If implemented properly, that kind of system may be better than these scheduled systems because the buses will have to stay a certain timed distance away from the bus ahead of them, and the bus behind them. That would constantly keep the buses in check. (This was kind of rushed logic, as I'm just typing this quickly... so it can be refined later).
Ed Drass
Active Member
Upcoming article
About to do a phone interview with the new head of YRT for Monday's column. Not sure which issues to focus on -- there are so many. York Region merits more than one story but GO & TTC take much of my attention.
I plan to focus on the complaint process in the hope that this reveals the top problems raised by users. Alas, if riders have little faith their concerns will be dealt with then they won't bother contacting the transit service...
-ed
About to do a phone interview with the new head of YRT for Monday's column. Not sure which issues to focus on -- there are so many. York Region merits more than one story but GO & TTC take much of my attention.
I plan to focus on the complaint process in the hope that this reveals the top problems raised by users. Alas, if riders have little faith their concerns will be dealt with then they won't bother contacting the transit service...
-ed
wilson_wu
Active Member
I LOVE YRT's customer service! I can email them and get a response within 3 days guarenteed.
Sometimes I'll receive an acknowledgement that the email has been received.
Other times, the message will enter through customer service, get to the department I enquired about, and I'll receive direct emails back from the department.
But most of the complaints up here are low bus frequencies (lots of arguments that York Region is investing too much into VIVA's main rapid transit corridors and ignoring other areas served by YRT that could provide feeder ridership into the system. 30-60 minute frequencies are still the norm), high fares (highest in the GTA).
Also if you aren't familiar with transit systems in York Region, the branding of the system, infrastructure is owned by the region, but the drivers and maintenance are supplied by private firms that are contracted to operate the system. So when one contractor goes on strike, the system is only partially disrupted and the entire region isn't screwed. This is one difference between YRT and TTC.
tapper of spines
New Member
I understand what you're saying, but, having lived in a place where the buses had schedules and they actually sticked to them, I have to disagree. It's far more convenient to look at the schedule, show up at the stop one minute before the scheduled arrival time, and get picked up on time. This is certainly true on low-frequency routes and especially for those people that don't have easy access to the 'instant schedule' feature you're referring to. True, the 'instant schedule' is certainly handy if you have an iphone or something that allows you to know exactly where your bus is, but I don't think that we shouldn't abandon schedules because of the instant system.
I also think, for what it's worth, that all the schedules for each stop should be posted at every stop. Also, every stop should have a system map on display, so people can figure out how to get where they're going. Of course, this requires that every stop has a shelter as well.
TOS
xtremesniper
Active Member
Nothing frustrates me more than having a message board reject my long and thought out post because a "session token" expired. Now I have to re-write everything again, and it's going to be half-assed.
Anyways, now I'm tired so I'm going to do the coles notes version of what I wrote...
- Having schedules at each stop would be too expensive to maintain if the schedules have to be changed, and with the recent introduction of the real-time info makes these set schedules not as important... I'd consider them more of a "guide" than reality.
- System maps are useless, at least to me. If I don't already know where I am and where I'm going (presuming I am a tourist), I doubt the super-complex and all-over-the-place transit maps that YRT has would help anyone get anywhere... We can use TTC's system maps as an example of being useless to tourists.
- The elimination of a set schedule would not happen any time soon, but as more and more people are connected to live data streams via their phones or other devices, I think it can become a reality in due time... But I think frequencies of service need to be increased first so that people don't risk waiting 30 minutes if they just missed the bus... as if that doesn't already happen with set schedules anyway.
- I think YRT was planning on installing a bus shelter at every stop. Why else would they have removed the grass and created giant concrete waiting areas with electricity wires ready to be hooked up to something? They did that for EVERY stop (in Markham, at least) and they are having those "Street Furniture Program Public Information Centres" these days, so that might be related.
Anyways, now I'm tired so I'm going to do the coles notes version of what I wrote...
- Having schedules at each stop would be too expensive to maintain if the schedules have to be changed, and with the recent introduction of the real-time info makes these set schedules not as important... I'd consider them more of a "guide" than reality.
- System maps are useless, at least to me. If I don't already know where I am and where I'm going (presuming I am a tourist), I doubt the super-complex and all-over-the-place transit maps that YRT has would help anyone get anywhere... We can use TTC's system maps as an example of being useless to tourists.
- The elimination of a set schedule would not happen any time soon, but as more and more people are connected to live data streams via their phones or other devices, I think it can become a reality in due time... But I think frequencies of service need to be increased first so that people don't risk waiting 30 minutes if they just missed the bus... as if that doesn't already happen with set schedules anyway.
- I think YRT was planning on installing a bus shelter at every stop. Why else would they have removed the grass and created giant concrete waiting areas with electricity wires ready to be hooked up to something? They did that for EVERY stop (in Markham, at least) and they are having those "Street Furniture Program Public Information Centres" these days, so that might be related.
wilson_wu
Active Member
I think this is in preparation of making bus routes fully accessible.
That's why it's taking so long for YRT to become accessible, even though a majority of the fleet is low floor.
tapper of spines
New Member
Hey there extreme,
Putting up a piece of paper at every stop is not that expensive, and well worth the cost. It is also WAY cheaper than having 'next bus' displays at every stop. Not that I don't like 'next bus' displays. I do.
I think may be an example of not being exposed to examples of things being done well. Try Zurich, for example, of a place where a system map can be implemented in a sensible way, such that it's actually readable.
This is certainly not true in Newmarket.
TOS
Putting up a piece of paper at every stop is not that expensive, and well worth the cost. It is also WAY cheaper than having 'next bus' displays at every stop. Not that I don't like 'next bus' displays. I do.
I think may be an example of not being exposed to examples of things being done well. Try Zurich, for example, of a place where a system map can be implemented in a sensible way, such that it's actually readable.
This is certainly not true in Newmarket.
TOS
doady
Senior Member
The YRT/VIVA system map is just terrible. Style over substance. It could easily be much better and much more useful. It doesn't show any of the streets and everything on the map is too small in size because there is too much useless information, such as the "connections" in the Route Directory. And you'd think that, with the Route Directory already indicating which days each route is in operation, the Weekend service map would be not be necessary to include. It is redundant info.
They don't even need to put the entire system map at each stop. In Zone 1, the stops only need a map of Zone 1, and in Zone 2, there only needs to be maps of Zone 2, which solves the size problem. This way, they might even be able to fit weekend service map on there if they want and more importantly add in all the streets.
They don't even need to put the entire system map at each stop. In Zone 1, the stops only need a map of Zone 1, and in Zone 2, there only needs to be maps of Zone 2, which solves the size problem. This way, they might even be able to fit weekend service map on there if they want and more importantly add in all the streets.
xtremesniper
Active Member
Very true, the route map for YRT doesn't have the actual streets overlayed onto the map. That's one of the biggest problems. I think "style over substance" describes it well, even though I kind of like how it looks... except for that street problem.
just_chillin
New Member
I'm too lazy to sit here and "quote" everything so anyways:
The stops with the concrete and such is for "accessibility". In order for a route to be deemed "accessible" at least 50% of the stops have to be ADA compliant, which by enlarging them and even creating concrete bases, handles this issue.
As for the map, no offence guys/gals.. but you really should visit yrt.ca more often and/or read the "mytransit" newsletters that come out every month or two. Here's the link to the winter 2009/2010 one with an excerpt:
http://yrt.ca/news/mytransit/MyTransit_Winter09-10_e-version.pdf
Also, as for the schedules at all stops. WAY too time consuming. Remember, there are over 4000 stops in the region and service changes take place around 4 times a year. It's not too bad how it is now IMO. Full information online including realtime info. Usually they have schedules at MAJOR stops (eg: Yonge, Vaughan Mills. etc..) and if you are at a bus stop in the middle of no where there is a phone number and bus stop number, and MOST people do have cell phones nowadays. They are even going to work on a widget in the future that you can setup your own next bus "display" for your computer (and possibly cell phone/iphone etc. as well) for any stop in the region. So if your phone/computer is capable of it, you will be able to have your own personal next bus display screen!
The biggest complaint I have as a driver on behalf of passengers though, is their frequencies, if they really want to get more people to take transit then 1) start focusing more on your YRT routes and less so on Viva, Viva for the most part is fine at this point. 2) Make it a plan similar to TTC's that all routes to have a minimum of 30 minute frequencies at all times. Who the hell wants to leave their car at home when they may have to wait around for as much as 45-60 minutes if they miss their scheduled bus (connection)?
The stops with the concrete and such is for "accessibility". In order for a route to be deemed "accessible" at least 50% of the stops have to be ADA compliant, which by enlarging them and even creating concrete bases, handles this issue.
As for the map, no offence guys/gals.. but you really should visit yrt.ca more often and/or read the "mytransit" newsletters that come out every month or two. Here's the link to the winter 2009/2010 one with an excerpt:
http://yrt.ca/news/mytransit/MyTransit_Winter09-10_e-version.pdf
Also, as for the schedules at all stops. WAY too time consuming. Remember, there are over 4000 stops in the region and service changes take place around 4 times a year. It's not too bad how it is now IMO. Full information online including realtime info. Usually they have schedules at MAJOR stops (eg: Yonge, Vaughan Mills. etc..) and if you are at a bus stop in the middle of no where there is a phone number and bus stop number, and MOST people do have cell phones nowadays. They are even going to work on a widget in the future that you can setup your own next bus "display" for your computer (and possibly cell phone/iphone etc. as well) for any stop in the region. So if your phone/computer is capable of it, you will be able to have your own personal next bus display screen!
The biggest complaint I have as a driver on behalf of passengers though, is their frequencies, if they really want to get more people to take transit then 1) start focusing more on your YRT routes and less so on Viva, Viva for the most part is fine at this point. 2) Make it a plan similar to TTC's that all routes to have a minimum of 30 minute frequencies at all times. Who the hell wants to leave their car at home when they may have to wait around for as much as 45-60 minutes if they miss their scheduled bus (connection)?
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taal
Senior Member
30 min is too much for the vast majority of routes less some specialty ones. Specialty like rush hour express routes, a.k.a 300 and the like.
For any all day regular route - during the day time - let's say 7am - 7pm it needs to be 15/20min or better for transit to be accessible, 30min+ routes are GO like frequencies and is fine for that sort of transit, for local transit it just won't cut it / convince people to stop driving.
just_chillin
New Member
Thats why I said 30 minutes MINIMUM. Meaning those odd "specialtiy" routes that could get away with it. Or those "country" routes that really don't need more than 30 minute service because of the low population the route serves. But routes (excluding Viva of course) such as 1,2,3,4,85,90,98,99 etc (there are more, just a few quick examples off the top of my head) should be probably anywhere from 10-15-20 minutes like you said 7a-7p or so. And if they fix the schedules "properly", they wouldn't need that much extra resources to do it.