Yonge Street Revitalization (Downtown Yonge BIA/City of Toronto)

[thecharioteer]

Amen to that. And your photograph indicates how said renovation might restore the collective statement that block of four storefronts makes, once the competing individual treatments have been toned down.

The Georgians understood the collective statement (John Nash's Regent's Park crescents allowed each resident to live in a palace). Though (Lord knows) Yonge Street will never be Regent Street, the "de-individualizing" of these terraces would bring an urban scale back to Yonge that has been lost over the years.

 

[Urban Shocker]

I'm all for the bringing back the long-hidden collective architectural statement in our streetscapes - doing so is one of the best weapons we have in the war against the sort of creeping, generic "anywhere place" city that exists further south, near Dundas, where devolutionary cultural forces have left us with extended runs of entire storefronts covered in posters advertising corporate brands.

 

[Tewder]

Yes...I think that's why I'm partially apologetic about some of the elements of Yonge most people find "bad", and need addressing. I see all these little elements as artifacts..they aren't "good" or "bad". But it is these subtle physical things that partly contribute to a "mood" of the area.

And there's just something bitter-sweet about completely gentrifying an area where it is completely devoid of any of these artifacts in the name of "improvement".

Agreed. Who wants Yonge/Dundas to look like Bath?

 

[adma]

Agreed. Who wants Yonge/Dundas to look like Bath?

As opposed to a Bathhouse?

 

[freshcutgrass]

As opposed to a Bathhouse?

I hope no-one minds if I use this as a segue into a gay-related topic.

I always think of Yonge more as a "place" rather than an aesthetic destination (or where aesthetics are not an important element of it as a "place"). And unlike other places, Yonge was not a single theme place (Chinatown, Yorkville, etc)....it was a place where people, events, situations mingled together and were forced upon each other for better or worse.

It is/was sort of the DMZ of Toronto.

Yonge was "home" to many things, including the gay community. Yonge served the purpose, among many purposes, as "Main Street Gay Toronto", and as such, forced all the other Yonge Street goers to be exposed to it (again, for better or worse). When Church Street became ground zero for the gay community, it became a themed area (I never liked the "Gay Ghetto" label) people could avoid easily...out'a sight...out'a mind so to speak.

Yonge still has a large gay presence, but I guess my point is that while a "clean up" of Yonge may improve things that really do need improving, it may in the process, take away what made Yonge unique...being a "neutral zone", where anybody and anything goes.

 

[Urban Shocker]

The Georgians understood the collective statement (John Nash's Regent's Park crescents allowed each resident to live in a palace). Though (Lord knows) Yonge Street will never be Regent Street, the "de-individualizing" of these terraces would bring an urban scale back to Yonge that has been lost over the years.

And who would want Yonge Street to be Regent Street? The collective statement made by the rows of commercial buildings you show is wholly ours, and anyway rather later in date, and the 19th century "Toronto Style" is a lot less fussy than the Gothicized English equivalents. Our Bay-n-gable is a stripped-down version of MockGgoth / Italianate revival compared to the cluttered, inferior U.K. equivalent.

 

[thecharioteer]

And who would want Yonge Street to be Regent Street? The collective statement made by the rows of commercial buildings you show is wholly ours, and anyway rather later in date, and the 19th century "Toronto Style" is a lot less fussy than the Gothicized English equivalents. Our Bay-n-gable is a stripped-down version of MockGgoth / Italianate revival compared to the cluttered, inferior U.K. equivalent.

Who wouldn't want Yonge to look more like Regent Street? As nostalgic and affectionate I may be of the street in general, so much of it is so small-town Main Street. Perhaps the current buildings are "ours", but even when these early Victorian terraces got replaced by either "heftier" Victorian complexes like the Masonic Hall at Gloucester or early office/warehouses like the Ryrie Building at Shuter, or the Heintzman Building at Queen, (or Eaton's or Simpson's) the street evolved into a much more urbane, sophisticated streetscape.

As for Regent Street, not sure what you mean by "Gothicized". The Regent Street I love is a collection of neo-classical buildings with a beautiful scale, sense of materials, and wonderful storefronts. Surely if Yonge had evolved to this scale (which supports better retail), the street and buildings would not have deteriorated to the extent seen today.

 

[Urban Shocker]

Hmmmm. Interesting.

Tewder asks, "Who wants Yonge/Dundas to look like Bath?" and thecharioteer asks, "Who wouldn't want Yonge to look more like Regent Street?". You guys should talk!

 

[Urban Shocker]

As for Regent Street, not sure what you mean by "Gothicized". The Regent Street I love is a collection of neo-classical buildings with a beautiful scale, sense of materials, and wonderful storefronts. Surely if Yonge had evolved to this scale (which supports better retail), the street and buildings would not have deteriorated to the extent seen today.

Oh, the "Gothicized" comment was an attempt to classify the style of those two Toronto commercial rows that you posted pictures of. They're obviously not Regency but later. I just meant that we've got the buildings that we've got, so we might as well make the best of them. I'm often depressed, when I'm in England, by the residential Gothic Revival row houses in towns and cities, compared to our Bay-n-gables, which have a less literal connection to the Gothic - more gestural and distinctively original takes on that earlier style.

 

[thecharioteer]

..... we've got the buildings that we've got, so we might as well make the best of them. .

Amen!

 

[adma]

I'm often depressed, when I'm in England, by the residential Gothic Revival row houses in towns and cities, compared to our Bay-n-gables, which have a less literal connection to the Gothic - more gestural and distinctively original takes on that earlier style.

Probably in part because the English equivalent was all too often built-by-the-pound: i.e. c19 equivalents of c21 Brampton or Vaughan--Toronto was still fairly "innocent" in that regard...

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

I see your point, Ladies Mile, but I don't necessarily agree.

The halcyon days of the Yonge street strip, from the mid-1960s until the early 1980s, was always about a certain urban character rather than aesthetic. The aesthetic was a response to that character, and almost nothing exists of the original. Retaining the historic facades is, to me, a bit dishonest, since they never played any role in the Yonge street we knew and loved (they were covered up in neon ads), and, with few exceptions (like that Moorish building beside Zanzibar) are not particularly noteworthy.

Yonge street's character is long gone largely because it was of a time and place that is long gone. The Yonge street of Going down the Road was sort of that ne plus ultra of North American cosmopolitanism of the late 1960s which involved a comingling of the intellectual and the carnal pursuits: late night book and record stores adjacent to porno theatres; the porno theatres, however, showing films that might end up to be cult classics, while the book stores dabbling in their share of smut. When I think about it, Playboy magazine captured the essence of this culture very well, with its topless photos sandwiched between interviews with notable authors. It was all very exciting back in those days, but it doesn't hold up in today's world where sex, sexuality and intellectualism are conceived very differently.

Other than the Bohemian village around Gerrard street which was demolished to make way for hospital loading docks and parking lots, it's hard to think of a neighbourhood which has had the life sucked out of it quite as much as the Yonge street strip. Adma's right: it's low end mall retail in mediocre buildings; whatever commercialism is left over is of the crassest, most unimaginative kind (backlit posters for American apparel that are basically newspaper ads blown up 500X and printed on vinyl). I think Yonge between Dundas and Gerrard is the second cheesiest street in Ontario after Clifton Hill, and at least in the latter's case it admits to being a tourist trap in a tourist trap city, without ever having had the distinction of being the main commercial street for a major city.

Very astute and well written HD, you took me back to the days I have such fond memories of! Also of important cultural note of the day were the gaming arcades, the first-run, repertory & grind-house movie cinemas (Imperial/Imperial Six, Uptown, New Yorker/Showcase, Yonge/Elgin, CineCity, The Downtown, Coronet, Biltmore, Cinema 2000 & The Rio) along with numerous pubs that kept life on Yonge interesting well into the morning hours.

While I support the idea of celebrating age and memory (in the same way that old movie stars are given Lifetime Achievement Awards for just surviving), we should beware of a certain architectural relativism inherent with not wanting to judge any of these survivors. As seen in this typical group below, too many of these buildings have been badly treated over the years. A sensitive programme of renovation and restoration needn't sacrifice the "mood" of Yonge.

Thank you! And it goes well beyond your photographic example, there are dozens of buildings from Bloor to Carlton/College that deserve restoration and a new life in the 21st century, greatly why I'm so rabid about a project like FIVE which breathes new life into nine of them.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Probably in part because the English equivalent was all too often built-by-the-pound: i.e. c19 equivalents of c21 Brampton or Vaughan--Toronto was still fairly "innocent" in that regard...

I think there were a number of interesting scenarios in Toronto that may have lead to what we had.

Tenement or apartment living basically did not exist in victorian Toronto, leaving the market to specialize on one housing type.

Pretty much all Bay'n Gable housing in in late victorian Toronto was speculatively built by investors/developers, within a highly competitive growth market, leading to creative ways of making your product more attractive than your competitor's.

Cheap and plentiful local building materials and skilled trades (new immigrants). Don Valley Brickworks was turning out an almost unlimited supply of high quality local products, and there was enough wood to produce all the fancy bargeboard and millwork you would ever want.

Cheaper land allowed for a little more space for houses. Semi-detached was more common than row houses and terrace homes. Deeper lots allowed for set-backs, large porches, larger back yards and back alley access.

 

[Urban Shocker]

Also, Britons only had to walk down the street to their local church to see genuine Gothic, so the Victorian revivalists were somewhat constrained in how loosely they could "revive" it, stylistically - especially since they made such a tedious fuss about how Gothic was the official style that most closely expressed "Englishness".

Paradoxically, the Georgians, because they worked in the Classical idiom, were able to incorporate earlier styles such as Gothic, or Tudor - or foreign styles such as Chinese - within the Classical language of design and proportion. The results were less literal and, I think, more fun ... in a Strawberry Hill sort of way. And, a continent away, Torontonians in the Victorian age were also distanced from the real deal of what genuine Gothic was when it came to designing residences ( sure, we got with the program when it came to the design of Anglican and Presbyterian churches, but even there English Goth sometimes veered towards Richardsonian Romanesque ).

 

[freshcutgrass]

Toronto afforded the upper-middle class (even possibly middle class) goodies such as...TURRETS!!!

Don't think many middle-class Londoners were gett'n turrets.