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Yonge Express Subway (Y.E.S)

Disparishun

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To electrify the line, we are looking at $5m/km for 2 tracks that inculdes substations.

To upgrade the RH line itself, $850m including grade separation. This also includes 4 new stations.

Rolling stock using EMU $200m

(...)

Therefore, far cheaper to upgrade the RH even if it cost an extra Billion to fix the line to have 3 tracks than to build a new Yonge subway.
You are saying $2b to electrify, add rolling stock (how much?), and add four new stations (including physical integration at Leslie/Oriole, adding one at Eglinton, and maybe doing something at Finch)?
 

afransen

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Building the DRL with express tracks would be way more bang for the buck. It would also allow better station spacing to support higher densities in the parts of the core it serves.
 

drum118

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You are saying $2b to electrify, add rolling stock (how much?), and add four new stations (including physical integration at Leslie/Oriole, adding one at Eglinton, and maybe doing something at Finch)?
You got to rebuild the line for 2/3 tracks just for GO to get higher speed.

You got to do the rail grade separation at Snider.

Got to do road grade separations along the line.

CN Runs trains on the sub in the Valley and therefore you need a track just for it as well the Northlander.

Adding tracks in the Don Valley will not be cheap. This includes more bridges also.

John, Eglinton, Lawrence, Queen/King/West Don Land, Don Mills are new station with relocation of a few others to better connected to transit.

If you are running 5 car EMU's, that just over $20m a set and you are going to need how many if you are running 5-10 minute headway all day??

How many spares are you going to have?

If the line is a 7/24, how many sets do you need to keep the line operating 100%??

I going on the high side for cost. If you want to go cheap, Just over a Billion, but far less than the $4B for the Yonge extension that includes the cost of the yard that is missing at this time.

The RH line is up and running by 2012-13 where the subway is still 5 years away at best at that time. The EA for this will have to be a Fed one, not Provincial one that has a longer lead time.
 

kEiThZ

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GO is definitely the solution in my books. I would rather not waste billions building an express subway under the Yonge line when RH can be done a lot cheaper and will provide more bang for the buck.

If we had fare and service integration with YRT/VIVA, GO and the TTC, nobody on here would be talking about the YES or the DRL right now. But we don't have fare integration and we barely provide bus service to our GO stations. Yet our solution is going to be billions on a subway to follow the same route as the existing one and an existing GO line?
 

urbanfan89

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For some reason they simply refuse to integrate TTC and local transit with GO.

It's almost as if they're lobbying for landmines and razer fences to prevent commuters from transferring between the two.
 

RedRocket191

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For some reason they simply refuse to integrate TTC and local transit with GO.

It's almost as if they're lobbying for landmines and razer fences to prevent commuters from transferring between the two.
I've got a solution, but a certain person who is on facebook a lot won't like it. ;)
 

Disparishun

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GO is definitely the solution in my books. I would rather not waste billions building an express subway under the Yonge line when RH can be done a lot cheaper and will provide more bang for the buck.
So, a NSE (North-South Express) line, costing about $2 billion, and created by (1) electrifying, (2) adding rolling stock (or maybe O-train type cars) to create frquent all-day two-way service, (3) adding/relocating stations to create in-station transfers at Finch LRT/bus, Sheppard subway, Eglinton LRT, and a pre-Union downtown location, and (4) fare integration such that going from point A to B costs a similar amount incenting people to take the transit mode most appropriate to their journey.

Sounds like the NSE could have some legs to it! I see this as an adjunct to the DRL, not a substitute for it.
 

jks

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You mean (trolley-)buses that operate on electricity generated by nuclear power? We have those. Or if you mean buses that could one day use portable nuclear batteries such as these, these or these, sure why not, the technology is certainly being actively researched right now. But it probably has too much vision for UT. Or people would probably jump on it and want the research funding spent on more impending social issues.
Wow, would you really want to sit in a radioactive bus every day to work and back?!?!
Back to the YES!! If we had billions growing on trees, then this would be a great idea (along with the Jane-DRL-Don Mills Subway, the Separate Queen Subway, the Eglinton Subway, and the no-brainer, finishing of the Sheppard Subway in both direction. And while we're at it, there is traffic building up on Steeles. How 'bout a line there.
We simply do not, and I'd rather we spend the money on new subway lines, that would attract new riders.

BTW, Bloor-Danforth has a much worse average station spacing, I mean, it is redicilous. I shouldn't be able to walk 4 stations in 10 minutes? :eek:
 

Chuck

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I'll say it again - GO serves a completely different, very limited market compared to the subway. The subway can be used for people going to the doctor, buying milk, visiting friends, going to school, going to the park, taking their dog to the vet, shopping, or doing chores. You can make the Richmond Hill line as fast as you want, but it will be perpetually useless for this type of trip.

Yes, express tracks north of Eglinton would serve little purpose. However, express tracks south of Eglinton would improve the commute of probably about 500,000 people per day. Upgrading the Richmond Hill line would cost the same, however even if ridership increased tenfold, it would only benefit about 75,000 people. Note that today, about the same number of people use Summerhill Station as the entire Richmond Hill line.

People who live in the city deserve quick, easy, express transit too. I don't support express tracks north of Eglinton, however I believe that express tracks would be a very worth cause between Eglinton and Union Station, as well as on the inner BD subway. After building a complete and proper DRL, I believe that the next subway building priority should be adding express tracks to the south Yonge line.
 

RedRocket191

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I'll say it again - GO serves a completely different, very limited market compared to the subway. The subway can be used for people going to the doctor, buying milk, visiting friends, going to school, going to the park, taking their dog to the vet, shopping, or doing chores. You can make the Richmond Hill line as fast as you want, but it will be perpetually useless for this type of trip.
So what would make it useful for a greater variety of trips?
 

golodhendil

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Wow, would you really want to sit in a radioactive bus every day to work and back?!?!
These batteries use sources that only produce alpha or beta radiation, which can be shielded simply by paper, plastic or glass. And if they are safe enough for use in pacemakers, they are safe enough for buses.
Anyways, don't want to pull this any more OT.
 

Chuck

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So what would make it useful for a greater variety of trips?
Nothing. The RH line runs through forests and valleys, industrial parks and low density residential areas. It is more useful to squirrels and foxes than it is to actual people. It has limited potential to serve as a somewhat fast way to get right downtown.

The Yonge subway on the other hand runs through high density residential areas, Class A employment areas, entertainment, movies, services, healthcare, schools, parks...you name it. With stations already so far apart north of Eglinton, nothing beats the Yonge subway in terms of convenience and speed. Express trains south of Eglinton would be icing on the cake.

Remember, the RH line is completely unique compared to the rest of GO lines in terms of how useless it is. It is by far the slowest line, and is the only one with zero possibility for high speed service. It runs parallel to the subway, and most of its patrons actually live closer to a subway station than a GO station. It's the only line that when it shuts down for whatever reason, 100% of its users can still get to work by transit. For transit trips, the Yonge subway makes more sense within the RH GO corridor. This is completely false for all other GO lines.
 
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From what I know so far, the Richmond Hill GO line is sited for eventual upgrade to regional rail for a number of reasons.

The Yonge/7/407 area is where no less than six RT lines are planned to converge (i.e. two GO BRT services, two Viva BRT services, GO rail, and a subway). This no doubt will be a catalyst for higher density development in the area. Hence why a Richmond Hill GO regional/express rail service is also considered somewhat of a pressure release valve for the Yonge subway extension.

From what I've ascertained from Metrolinx's approach to the regional/express rail concept, there would be other opportunities of increasing ridership on the Richmond Hill line if there are direct connections with Leslie station (Oriole is currently way too far south to be considered a direct connection), and a new station connected with the future Eglinton LRT line.

One of the main drawbacks of the line being more usable by more passengers is the east Don valley section. This is why there should also be a feasibility study of a twin tunnel connection between the CN Bala sub near York Mills Road and the CP Belleville sub at Eglinton Avenue East. Otherwise, there's not much point in upgrading the line to all day service.
 

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