Yonge-Dundas Square/Sankofa Square (Brown + Storey Architects)

[egotrippin]

The granite is a nice material but like everything modern in this dreary city, it's grey and barely stands out from the surrounding concrete. It's probably a big waste to trash all that stone but using a warmer colour would be an instant improvement; add some seating and you're getting close.

Pioneer Courthouse Square in Portland and Fed Square in Melbourne come to mind as a couple of ideas to emulate. Warm, red tones used for the paving materials and the use of elevation creating an amphitheatre effect, as well as large stairs that serve as seating.

From there I'd ring the square with hardy, fast growing trees and look at creating a more intentional, grander water feature that really impresses. The Crown Fountain in Chicago comes to mind, although probably a bit too large/ambitious for this location. Surely we can find some middle ground though.

 

[A Torontonian Now]

Sober, Stable & Sane. That's all I ask of my fellow park and public square goers. If that's exclusionary then I'm guilty as charged.

Sanity is in the eye of the beholder, and possibly overrated. Demanding total sobriety is a bit too tea-totaller for me, and some people are quite pleasant while not sober. I think if you just leave it at Stable (i.e. non-threatening), that's good enough for me.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

Sober, Stable & Sane. That's all I ask of my fellow park and public square goers. If that's exclusionary then I'm guilty as charged.

Then The City should start be sending paddy wagons up to all the frat and sorority houses that litter my neighbourhood every night...

...that said and more seriously though, if they aint bothering anyone then leave them be. Since the latter would probably include most of us, lol.

 

[Admiral Beez]

It is enormously filthy too. It seems to me that city crews clean it as if it were at Yonge & Lawrence with no recognition that it is the busiest intersection in the country. You don't go to Times Square in NYC without seeing someone cleaning some bit of it, but like a lot of our public spaces, we let it go to sh*t.

To be honest, I have more of an issue with that than the design itself.

I visited Time Square in early January 2023. My take, Times Square is great, because:

1. It's clean. There were city crews sweeping, hosing down and changing trash cans, etc. Maybe this was close to New Years so extra cleanup was undertaken, but it was nice to see.
2. It's safe. There were dozens of NYD cops all over the Square. Unlike Toronto's cops who for whatever reason are unable to use their footwear, NYD cops were on foot, walking the Square.
3. It’s fun. Lots of shops, restaurants, buskers, and folks enjoying the day

 

[Admiral Beez]

Sanity is in the eye of the beholder, and possibly overrated. Demanding total sobriety is a bit too tea-totaller for me, and some people are quite pleasant while not sober. I think if you just leave it at Stable (i.e. non-threatening), that's good enough for me.

Good points. Re. sober, I was thinking more of wigged-out junkies than happy drunks.

 

[SubHuman]

Good points. Re. sober, I was thinking more of junkies than drunks.

...that said and more seriously though, if they aint bothering anyone then leave them be...

Isn't it bothersome that the subway is continually shut down by them jumping onto the tracks and running into the tunnel? Or that the only solution anyone seems to ever propose is hugely expensive platform barrier doors at every station?

 

[C-mac]

Then The City should start be sending paddy wagons up to all the frat and sorority houses that litter my neighbourhood every night...

...that said and more seriously though, if they aint bothering anyone then leave them be. Since the latter would probably include most of us, lol.

There should be a bigger police presence at almost all times. You go to NYC and there's cops on every corner. little lone Times Square.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

Isn't it bothersome that the subway is continually shut down by them jumping onto the tracks and running into the tunnel? Or that the only solution anyone seems to ever propose is hugely expensive platform barrier doors at every station?

...yeah, but this is about Dundas Square here. I'm sure there's a UT thread somewhere for TTC platform restructuring or something.

There be a bigger police presence at almost all times. You go to NYC and there's cops on every corner. little lone Times Square.

More police presence are not going to make this sqaure prettier though. >.<

 

[Northern Light]

Isn't it bothersome that the subway is continually shut down by them jumping onto the tracks and running into the tunnel? Or that the only solution anyone seems to ever propose is hugely expensive platform barrier doors at every station?

Platform Edge Doors are in use around the world as a standard technique to address multiple concerns.

They address suicide attempts (from people who are not illicit drug users, for the most part)

They address trespassers, who also include a wide range of folks (I dropped my phone.......to teenage ' I dare you' types)

They address criminals fleeing police

They also address litter both wilful and blow-in, that often creates smoke or fire when it contacts the third rail.

I have some concern about the currently cited costs by the TTC which have doubled in the last few years........

But as I know one of the likely bidders, I hope to get an inside track on what a realistic number is and why in short order.

 

[C-mac]

...yeah, but this is about Dundas Square here. I'm sure there's a UT thread somewhere for TTC platform restructuring or something.


More police presence are not going to make this sqaure prettier though. >.<

No but it might deter some of the unsavory characters in the area which is a start.

 

[khris]

We definitely need more police on foot walking downtown. Having visible police does deter crime, and the right police that say hi to you when the walk past you and are friendly and smiling would make a world of difference in making people feel safe.

 

[Admiral Beez]

We definitely need more police on foot walking downtown. Having visible police does deter crime, and the right police that say hi to you when the walk past you and are friendly and smiling would make a world of difference in making people feel safe.

As much as I don't like the huge TPS budget, we need more police in total. We can't ensure law and order otherwise.

TPS has 5,500 police officers with an annual budget of CAD $1.1 billion. That's $200,000 per officer. Of course each officer is not themselves costing this, for example TPS has 2,000 civilian employees covered by this budget. But it stands that in order to field 5,500 officers we are spending CAD $1.1 billion, or $200,000 per officer. The NYPD has 30,000 police officers with an annual budget of CAD $7.3 billion (USD $5.4 b), which also covers 10,000 civilian employees. That's CAD $243,000 per officer, or 21% more than Toronto spends.

If we want more policing we will need more police. If we want 10,000 police officers we need to increase the TPS budget to over CAD$ 2 billion. I am willing to pay my share to achieve this IF we get beat cops, not on bicycles, horses or in pricey Ford Explorers, but on their feet. I want them walking the beat, connecting with their neighbourhood, and keeping the watch out at Dundas Square to deter open drug use and dealing, beggars, nuisance, obstruction, littering, public urination and vandalism.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

No but it might deter some of the unsavory characters in the area which is a start.

/ugh

 

[khris]

/ugh

What do you mean by that?
Do you want Toronto to become like US cities where crime is so rampant that stores are closing? This is not the city I want to live in. We need to stop with this craziness and start doing something about it before it's too late.

 

[C-mac]

What do you mean by that?
Do you want Toronto to become like US cities where crime is so rampant that stores are closing? This is not the city I want to live in. We need to stop with this craziness and start doing something about it before it's too late.

yeah I wasn't sure what that meant either, so I just moved on but now that you asked I'm interested to see the response.