Earth Heals Herself
Banned
Your quips are falling flat like Bob Rae's tires.
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Why to support the Liberal Party
- Thread starter Brandon716
- Start date
Your quips are falling flat like Bob Rae's tires.
grey
Senior Member
In that case, I think you'll find this book is right up your alley. I'm not here to defend it. Go read it, if you want.
Earth Heals Herself
Banned
I'm not asking you to defend it as I can see you're not a fan. I'm asking you what you have against Christians? Don't be shy.
grey
Senior Member
I have no problem with Christians in general
But my personal feelings toward Christians aren't the issue here. You seem to be having trouble understanding the subject of the book?GenerationW
Senior Member
Watch this carefully Brandon:
[video=youtube;QiZdY9rw-uo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiZdY9rw-uo[/video]
kEiThZ
Superstar
I'm no fan of the NDP. But I am rooting for them. Simply for the change they represent. I'd like to see more choice in our political system, rather than the stale Lib-Con crap we've seen for a decade now. The NDP taking the mantle of the official opposition will really shake things up.
And it'll finally force the Liberals to admit what I've always argued they need to face: they are no longer a truly national party with cross-regional support. They have become NDP lite without even the NDP's western and rural base. That's the reason they are sliding. They need to rebrand themselves and truly establish what they stand for. They've been running on the "natural governing party" schtick for far too long. The "But we're not Conservative" mantra only gets you so far.
Kinda reminds me of the Bloc. They don't stand for much except Quebec sovereignty. Most Quebecers could not really tell you if the Bloc is a leftist or rightist party.
And it'll finally force the Liberals to admit what I've always argued they need to face: they are no longer a truly national party with cross-regional support. They have become NDP lite without even the NDP's western and rural base. That's the reason they are sliding. They need to rebrand themselves and truly establish what they stand for. They've been running on the "natural governing party" schtick for far too long. The "But we're not Conservative" mantra only gets you so far.
Kinda reminds me of the Bloc. They don't stand for much except Quebec sovereignty. Most Quebecers could not really tell you if the Bloc is a leftist or rightist party.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
1993?! Seriously? Can we stick to this Century perhaps? Regardless, you're making the novice mistake of using what an organization has done in the past to predict its future behaviour and accomplishments. The Liberals were the ones that brought Canada the Avro Arrow with its massive defense expenditures, and it was the Liberals in 1963 that deployed nuclear-armed Bomarcs missiles on Canadian soil - but none of that matters, it's in the past, good or bad.
Much like the Liberals of yesterday and today, my father and I share the same name, but I can take no claim to my father's past accomplishments, nor do they predict my own future accomplisments and competence, or lack thereof. Today' Liberals and Iggy must focus 100% on the future, not what the party under different leadership did in the latter half of the last Century. Can you imagine a 20th Century election when some candidate says he's the best choice because of something his party did in the 1800s? He's be laughed off the stage. Iggy had better focus on today and tomorrow, or he's toast.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Yeah, like the almightly is going to pick the frozen tundra for the final battleground. I can see it now, the Four Hosers of the Apocalypse arguing over Timmies and an old atlas trying to find the way to Dildo, Newfoundland from Climax, Saskatchewan.
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adma
Superstar
And your "banned" status proves who had the last laugh here.
Brandon716
Senior Member
I expected nothing less than a healthy challenge, and I welcome all the comments. For the record, I've never been in love with Ignatieff, I preferred Gerard Kennedy back in 06. Only a few days until we find out!
Brandon716
Senior Member
Here's how arguments go since the Liberals have been bashed so heavily in the media in the past decade.
1) If Liberals run on their proud record, they are clinging to the past, have no offerings for the future.
2) If Liberals propose ideas, the mantra becomes they are running away from their corrupt past, filled with do-nothing politics and corrupt elitist Liberal corruption.
Instead of running on hyperbolic cynicism, I wanted the chance to say something from a different viewpoint. I see a lot of positive things the Liberals have done, and will do as proposed in the current red book.
So what if some promises get broken? Is a dipper really that concerned that the Liberals broke the promise in the 1990's to cut the GST? LOL I think not.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
There's nothing wrong with running on your proud record, as long as it's your record. The Liberal Party's record at the end of the 20th Century does not belong to Iggy, he wasn't there. Were any of the current top line Liberal MPs there in the 1990s in cabinet positions? If so, then bring them out to run on their accomplishments. If not, the past record does not belong to Iggy.
RC8
Senior Member
Based on the campaigns NDP surely deserve to win this election. They are the only ones trying to win it on the merits of their vision of a better country.
Conservatives are disgusting with their 'he didn't come back for you' bullshit and other dirty tricks. They should stand for fiscal prudence but have done everything but in practice. They also don't give a fuck about cities - which require significantly more governance than their rural oil base.
Liberals on the other hand have spent the whole campaign asking for votes on the basis that: they are not Harper, and they are a bigger party than the NDP. In other words, they've failed to explain why their ideas are any better or any more sound than those that Layton is proposing. Layton promised more nurses and doctors - what do liberals have to say about this? They refuse to comment because the NDP aren't a real contender apparently.
Regardless of your political position, the only party that have carried out a positive campaign based on democratic values and an improved vision for Canada have been the NDP. That's obviously why they are doing well in Quebec at the polls (just saying 'we are not conservative' is futile when there's another more popular non-conservative power in the region).
I hope Layton wins this. At the very worse we might then get to see new more competent and positive faces taking over the liberals and conservatives for future elections.
Conservatives are disgusting with their 'he didn't come back for you' bullshit and other dirty tricks. They should stand for fiscal prudence but have done everything but in practice. They also don't give a fuck about cities - which require significantly more governance than their rural oil base.
Liberals on the other hand have spent the whole campaign asking for votes on the basis that: they are not Harper, and they are a bigger party than the NDP. In other words, they've failed to explain why their ideas are any better or any more sound than those that Layton is proposing. Layton promised more nurses and doctors - what do liberals have to say about this? They refuse to comment because the NDP aren't a real contender apparently.
Regardless of your political position, the only party that have carried out a positive campaign based on democratic values and an improved vision for Canada have been the NDP. That's obviously why they are doing well in Quebec at the polls (just saying 'we are not conservative' is futile when there's another more popular non-conservative power in the region).
I hope Layton wins this. At the very worse we might then get to see new more competent and positive faces taking over the liberals and conservatives for future elections.
Brandon716
Senior Member
I think the NDP surge is very simple to examine.
Chantal Hebert had it right the other day. She said part of what happened in Quebec is that the PQ and the Bloc got together in a meeting - in the middle of the federal election - and essentially started rumoring that they are supporting another referendum if the PQ wins and the Quebec Liberals lose next provincial election. This turns off a LOT of Quebec voters that vote Bloc for other reasons than separation, so these people found a new home in the NDP and are willing to take that risk rather than a pathetic referendum. This is just one issue, but it is a huge issue most of the English media have overlooked.
The dynamic is 100% different in Atlantic Canada and Ontario. If the dippers in AC and southern Ontario think they have a chance, they are sorely mistaken. Quebec is a different animal, the ballgame is totally different with other rules that don't apply. In Ontario and AC, if this NDP surge is felt, it'll split the left, and the only other party to fill the void is a Conservative Majority.
It is clearly up to the voter on May 2nd to make this decision, and I hope people in the Maritimes and Ontario wake up.. Or to borrow a phrase from Ignatieff, Rise Up! Why? The Liberals are NOT BAD. I outlined some of the positives over the last several decades, but the new red book is just as red as the old ones. College or University for everyone, universal healthcare you can count on, investments in infrastructure, equal rights for everyone... It is all there. It's better costed and better managed than the NDP platform.
If Ontarians and AC don't Rise Up and avoid this NDP distraction, Canada will have a Conservative majority government on May 2nd.
It is that simple. And no, the Liberal party isn't a bad choice. Its a great choice for those who care for universal health care, universal university education, and equal rights... And so much more.
AND, Admiral, do you have any proof to your claims that Ignatieff is a guy who will not deliver the red book he's laid out? Have you read the new red book?? You're just being cynical. The only thing the NDP has over the Liberals, which is dear to this forum, is urban issues. I do think the NDP has a good platform on that. But it isn't like the Liberals are anti-urban, this is a FEDERAL election. I can easily see Jack breaking promises because it is up to local leadership to decide what cities need, not federal politicians.
The NDP has very little to offer over the Liberals in my view. Are they bad at heart? Absolutely not, I'm a left winger. But the Liberals have delivered before and can deliver again. I preferred Gerard Kennedy over the Dion/Ignatieff duo the Liberals have had after Martin, but Ignatieff isn't a bad guy. He's still a Liberal and has a pretty good red book in my eyes. The only place where I generally disagree with Ignatieff on is foreign affairs, I am not happy about his historic comments on Iraq. I don't trust him as much as Chretien.
But foreign affairs isn't what I'd be voting on in this election, I'd be voting for more local issues.
Chantal Hebert had it right the other day. She said part of what happened in Quebec is that the PQ and the Bloc got together in a meeting - in the middle of the federal election - and essentially started rumoring that they are supporting another referendum if the PQ wins and the Quebec Liberals lose next provincial election. This turns off a LOT of Quebec voters that vote Bloc for other reasons than separation, so these people found a new home in the NDP and are willing to take that risk rather than a pathetic referendum. This is just one issue, but it is a huge issue most of the English media have overlooked.
The dynamic is 100% different in Atlantic Canada and Ontario. If the dippers in AC and southern Ontario think they have a chance, they are sorely mistaken. Quebec is a different animal, the ballgame is totally different with other rules that don't apply. In Ontario and AC, if this NDP surge is felt, it'll split the left, and the only other party to fill the void is a Conservative Majority.
It is clearly up to the voter on May 2nd to make this decision, and I hope people in the Maritimes and Ontario wake up.. Or to borrow a phrase from Ignatieff, Rise Up! Why? The Liberals are NOT BAD. I outlined some of the positives over the last several decades, but the new red book is just as red as the old ones. College or University for everyone, universal healthcare you can count on, investments in infrastructure, equal rights for everyone... It is all there. It's better costed and better managed than the NDP platform.
If Ontarians and AC don't Rise Up and avoid this NDP distraction, Canada will have a Conservative majority government on May 2nd.
It is that simple. And no, the Liberal party isn't a bad choice. Its a great choice for those who care for universal health care, universal university education, and equal rights... And so much more.
AND, Admiral, do you have any proof to your claims that Ignatieff is a guy who will not deliver the red book he's laid out? Have you read the new red book?? You're just being cynical. The only thing the NDP has over the Liberals, which is dear to this forum, is urban issues. I do think the NDP has a good platform on that. But it isn't like the Liberals are anti-urban, this is a FEDERAL election. I can easily see Jack breaking promises because it is up to local leadership to decide what cities need, not federal politicians.
The NDP has very little to offer over the Liberals in my view. Are they bad at heart? Absolutely not, I'm a left winger. But the Liberals have delivered before and can deliver again. I preferred Gerard Kennedy over the Dion/Ignatieff duo the Liberals have had after Martin, but Ignatieff isn't a bad guy. He's still a Liberal and has a pretty good red book in my eyes. The only place where I generally disagree with Ignatieff on is foreign affairs, I am not happy about his historic comments on Iraq. I don't trust him as much as Chretien.
But foreign affairs isn't what I'd be voting on in this election, I'd be voting for more local issues.
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RC8
Senior Member
I agree to a great extent. But it's highly unlikely that the liberals will be rewarded for such an embarrassing campaign. You can't win an election simply by showing up.
Liberals do not deserve to get voted in this time around. If that leads to a conservative majority,it really isn't the NDPs fault.
Liberals do not deserve to get voted in this time around. If that leads to a conservative majority,it really isn't the NDPs fault.