Why is religion above criticism?

[Prometheus The Supremo]

Listen, I don't know what religion you practice, but in my Christian faith it doesn't work that way. To be a Christian is to turn the other cheek and practice not violence (thou shalt not murder, remember?).

Respect is not always a two way street. What I know according to my beliefs, is that if someone does disrespect me or harm me, I must react with love and forgiveness. Despite what wicked things that happened, I must love my enemy and forgive their actions.

But yes in someways I see what you're getting at: the way that this entire thread was constructed was to be provoking to religious people. For example the title of the treat wasn't "Is religion above criticism?", but, "Why is religion above criticism?". (Which implies their own opinion as fact.)

i won't critique the other stuff you posted (for priorities sake) but i didn't especially like the part i bolded.

don't give any moral support to someone with such views as fieras.

 

[urbanboom]

i won't critique the other stuff you posted (for priorities sake) but i didn't especially like the part i bolded.

don't give any moral support to someone with such views as fieras.

What I was trying to say was that I could see why he thought religion was being targeted in a very bias way on this forum. (But then again, much of that bias grows from the untrue stereotype that all religious people are like Fieras)

His notion that killing others could be in some way "honourable", I in no way agree with. I don't offer any support for violence or hatred no matter what side of argument it comes from.

 

[fieras]

urbanboom, you are a better person than I

I don't go preaching the evils of athiesm because I care not what others believe. But it upsets me when people feel entitled to insult my beliefs simply because they don't like religion.

 

[digi]

urbanboom, you are a better person than I

We're all better than you...you've done nothing but spew hatred and condone violence.

I don't go preaching the evils of athiesm because I care not what others believe.

You preach the evils of your own 'religion', you react to other peoples beliefs with violence and hatred...and then you lie about it in the same thread.

 

[Brian69]

urbanboom, you are a better person than I

I don't go preaching the evils of athiesm because I care not what others believe. But it upsets me when people feel entitled to insult my beliefs simply because they don't like religion.

Seeing as it appears to make you violent, irrational and defensive it would be beneficial for this discussion if you could explain precisely what it is about your religion that makes it a good and noble thing and better than the beliefs of the unbelievers who disgust you.

 

[Hydrogen]

But yes in someways I see what you're getting at: the way that this entire thread was constructed was to be provoking to religious people.

This thread is based on a question. It's difficult to see how a question could be provocative, and even more difficult to see why anyone would be moved to violence by it.

 

[casaguy]

Yes, it's no different than insulting someone's mother. Why would you want to start slagging someone's beliefs unless you're itching for a fight?

fieras, I think you've successfully demonstrated why religion is apparently above criticism. It has become this untouchable entity that should never be questioned or debated.

I am full of faith, values and uphold myself to a high moral standard but I don't need to belong to an organized religion to know the difference between what's right and what's wrong. If you wanted to put down my values I certainly wouldn't respond with violence. It wouldn't even upset me. But I would welcome the debate.

Insulting my mother, though... that's a whole other thing.

 

[Admiral Beez]

What? And asking why it's not alright to insult religious people isn't?

I am deeply religious, with a strong Christian faith, and I found your comment that "non-believers disgust me" to be ridiculous and obviously meant to bait and provoke needlessly. If you're a believer, where does it say in whatever faith you claim to believe in that you should show and state disgust for those that do not follow your faith?

 

[wonderboy416]

Originally Posted by fieras
urbanboom, you are a better person than I

I don't go preaching the evils of athiesm because I care not what others believe. But it upsets me when people feel entitled to insult my beliefs simply because they don't like religion.

Wow... are you really saying that?
Care to take a look over your previous posts?

I'm also pretty sure you don't go preaching the "evils of athiesm" simply because you couldn't do it if you tried without sounding like an irrational lunatic... which you already kinda do.

 

[Hydrogen]

Yes, it's no different than insulting someone's mother. Why would you want to start slagging someone's beliefs unless you're itching for a fight?

Can one assume your mother is a real person, while your beliefs are a matter of conscience? That being said, if you are connected to your faith, why would anything someone else said bother you so much so as to engage in physical violence?

There's two things I will get violent over, that's my family and my beliefs. Anyone who wouldn't defend these fundamentals are life unworthy of life IMO.

Some people think life is itself free of a faith. The fact that you deem people as being "unworthy" suggests a secret desire to play god.

And non believers disgust me, but I don't go attacking infidels unprovoked.

What's the basis for your disgust? That someone has a different point of view than you? Sure, you claim that you don't attack those you call "infidels" unprovoked, but by your own words you would attack if they said something that you could so subjectively view as an attack. Your stance comes off as intolerant, so you can't blame people if they perceive you as someone ready to pop.

Better to die for something, than to die for nothing. The person blowing himself up is dying for something, the people getting blown up are dying for nothing.

The person who blows him/herself up is dead. Simple as that. Nothing gained, everything lost. Had that individual believed in something before hand, it ceased to matter the moment their body was torn apart by the explosion.

As for the those being killed, they were people with lives, families, interests, hopes and aspirations. They certainly never were "nothing."

People are free to do and say what they like, but some words and some actions have consequences, like anything else in life.

Words and actions certainly do have consequences. Your words here make you sound brittle and cold. Your particular brand of faith is one that denies the value of other persons - unless they are supposedly like you. This is the terrain where believers come to view themselves as having the rights of the god they believe in, and where such believers appear as both one-dimensional and threatening to others.

 

[urbanboom]

This thread is based on a question. It's difficult to see how a question could be provocative, and even more difficult to see why anyone would be moved to violence by it.

Of course a question could be provocative; any question phrased in a certain way on a subject that is divisive can be provocative. I was specifically reffering to way the question was phrased.

But the being moved by violence part... I can't understand that part either.

 

[gei]

p.s, i agree that blowing yourself up is not a cowardly thing to do. it's dumb, a waste of life, but it takes courage, a courage that religious extremism can give a person.

You have gotta be kidding me. Blowing yourself up and killing innocent people has got to be the most cowardly thing you can possibly do. I sincerely hope you were being sarcastic.

 

[gei]

That sticker should be stuck on the qu'aran (or however you spell it...) and every other "religious text" out there

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

You have gotta be kidding me. Blowing yourself up and killing innocent people has got to be the most cowardly thing you can possibly do. I sincerely hope you were being sarcastic.

what i said, i didn't mean it in a good way. in my vocabulary, courage doesn't always mean something honorable or good. sometimes people have the courage (strengths) to do bad things. for example, if someone dropped a large sum of money, i wouldn't have the courage to steal it. to the person who would steal it, i would say "where did you get the courage to do such a thing".

get it now?

 

[fieras]

This thread is based on a question. It's difficult to see how a question could be provocative.

really?

What if someone asked "Is Hydrogen a serial rapist?"

You wouldn't see that as provocative?

Seeing as it appears to make you violent, irrational and defensive it would be beneficial for this discussion if you could explain precisely what it is about your religion that makes it a good and noble thing and better than the beliefs of the unbelievers who disgust you.

You take my words out of context in attempt to prove your point.

a) I don't go whacking every idiot who says something I don't like. But I can perfectly understand someone getting upset and possibly violent when their core beliefs are under attack.

b) I never said my religion was more noble than anyone else's. Where I come from, people get killed for believing in other religions, so I take my beliefs seriously.