Why has there been no serious deamalgamation campaign?

[AlvinofDiaspar]

And it really wouldn't achieve much in any case, since you will need that regional level of government. Also don't forget that the inner burbs probably have a tax-base that is worse off than it was prior to amalgamation. Don't really see the point of deamalgamation at this pointless unless it's coupled with the formation of region-wide government.

AoD

 

[freshcutgrass]

I think he meant culturally?

Nope...i meant literally, in a legal/structural sense.

What an odd claim! Of course they were separate cities.

Until December 31, 1953, everything outside of what was then the City of Toronto was "separate", as in completely independent of the City of Toronto. As of Jan 1, 1954, everything within the current boundaries of Toronto were no longer "separate".

The cities (or in some cases, towns, etc.) were separate entities withing the Municipality of Metropolitan Toronto, and before that, the County of York. The same way any city is an separate entity within a County or Region.

There were no "cities"...it was towns, villages and townships (members of York County) prior to "Metro". Upon the formation of Metro, they were no longer independent members of York County...they were semi-autonomous entities of a municipality.

The same way any city is an separate entity within a County or Region.

Nope...being part of a municipality (city), County, Region (and Regional Municipality) are completely different.

Would you say Mississauga (in Regional Municipality of Peel) isn't a separate city?

The Regional Municipality of Peel is not the same as what the municipality of "Metro" was.

The major difference lies in the roles of the tiers.

"Metro" was very unique...the first of its kind in NA (possibly the world). Peel is a different animal. In the early 20th century, the old City of Toronto no longer saw any net benefit in outright "annexation", but the outlying towns & villages wanted it. "Metro" was the province's experiment to solve this problem.

Metro was under continuous change during its entire 44-year history. The 13 entities that made up Metro was reorganized in 1967 so that there were only 6 entities. The only entity called a "city" was the "old" Toronto, as it was always designated a "city" (although under Metro it was not an independent city any longer). The 5 other new entities were designated "boroughs".

4 of the boroughs didn't start calling themselves "cities" until Mel came up with it as a PR stunt. Since the level of the autonomy of the Lower Tier decreased the entire time of Metro, the idea that these newly declared "cities" were somehow more independent by virtue of the fact they were now called cities is silly.

By 1998, the role of "Metro" had mostly accomplished what it was invented to do...and fairly successfully. Harris was indeed correct that switching to a single tier would save the city money. But we enjoyed the benefits of having that existing lower tier that did a great job on a more "local" level. We knew this costs us more money to run the city that way, but we were happy to spend the added dollars to do it.

But Harris didn't care what we wanted...he was forcing us to accept poorer services and save money. But he didn't stop there...he wanted us to spend the same amount of money as before by downloading the difference in forcing provincial services on the city in a move he called "revenue neutral".

Then the knife got twisted, as circumstances made it no longer revenue neutral. Add this to the long existing practice of sucking taxes from Toronto to prop up the entire province and you can see why Torontonians were unhappy.

 

[canoehead]

Then the knife got twisted, as circumstances made it no longer revenue neutral. Add this to the long existing practice of sucking taxes from Toronto to prop up the entire province and you can see why Torontonians were unhappy.

If I recall, prior to amalgamation, there were three components to the tax bill:
- metro level
- city level
- school board

At amalgamation, the province downloaded social program costs, but assumed the school board costs. They had a separate program to rationalize schoolboards. I can't recall the net effect to a taxpayer at the time, but people tend to focus on the downloading and forget about the uploading for the school boards.

On whether they were cities or not, it was more than just a name. Etobicoke for example incorporated itself as a city in 1983, part of the regional municipality of Metro Toronto.

http://www.toronto.ca/archives/records_etobicoke.htm

 

[freshcutgrass]

On whether they were cities or not, it was more than just a name. Etobicoke for example incorporated itself as a city in 1983, part of the regional municipality of Metro Toronto.

It was strictly in name only. The lower tier council of Etobicoke just decided to change their designation of "Borough" to "city", and I suppose it was within their legal right to do so. But it did not change its structure within Metro. In fact, by the time they decided to change the designation from "Borough" to "City", the Lower Tiers had actually less autonomy than they did when they became "Boroughs".

 

[MetroMan]

I was for deamalgamation until David Miller's second term when he proposed Transit City. On the surface it was a transit plan, but look deeper and it was a social plan that would bring the city together, making it smaller and more united. Amalgamated Toronto is not that large if you look at other major cities around the world. It just seems that way because it's difficult to get from one point to another.

Rob Ford's election brought me back on side with demalgamation momentarily but I think that if we can get through him, the city will be united under the next Mayor. We just need another Transit City like plan to enable people living in East York or Scarborough to work and play in Etobicoke or Old Toronto. The old cities that make up Toronto are just too disconnected right now but as we move further away from 1997 it will continue to blend together.

To achieve this, we need a provincial government that is aware of this and continues to upload the costs downloaded by Mike Harris and decides to invest in transit. The current minority Liberal government is the closest we've been to that.

 

[adma]

Look at it this way: sure, Megacity elected Ford as Mayor, but before Ford, it elected Miller as Mayor. That is, it isn't necessarily eternally martyred to suburban vulgarians...

 

[Eug]

And it really wouldn't achieve much in any case, since you will need that regional level of government. Also don't forget that the inner burbs probably have a tax-base that is worse off than it was prior to amalgamation. Don't really see the point of deamalgamation at this pointless unless it's coupled with the formation of region-wide government.

Agreed. I see no point to deamalgamation.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Look at it this way: sure, Megacity elected Ford as Mayor, but before Ford, it elected Miller as Mayor. That is, it isn't necessarily eternally martyred to suburban vulgarians...

Good Point!

 

[doady]

Yes, let's deamalgamate, because political fragmentation is a good thing, and the suburbanites are just bringin' the city down. Just look the TTC, and the way it has declined ever since it has had to service the 'burbs (3 minute service along Finch, really?). Pull back TTC service back to the old city borders like it was in the past so the old city can have decent transit again. Assuming a single-tier deamalgamated Toronto, a lot less money would have to spent on police and social housing as well since those services are mostly needed in the 'burbs nowadays.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Toronto has been one big city since the closing years of the last Century. We're not going back.

 

[TOareaFan]

The Regional Municipality of Peel is not the same as what the municipality of "Metro" was.

The major difference lies in the roles of the tiers.

I wished you had gone on with that answer and explained further. Genuinely interested to hear what the differences between Peel and Metro were. Growing up in Peel, it was always explained to me that Metro and Peel were equivalent levels of government with very similar responsibilities. How different we're he roles of the tiers?

 

[waterloowarrior]

What an odd claim! Of course they were separate cities. The cities (or in some cases, towns, etc.) were separate entities withing the Municipality of Metropolitan Toronto, and before that, the County of York. The same way any city is an separate entity within a County or Region.

Would you say Mississauga (in Regional Municipality of Peel) isn't a separate city? Would you say Windsor (in Essex County) isn't a separate city?

Windsor actually is a separated city like Kingston, Barrie, London, etc. and isn't part of the County.

 

[nfitz]

Windsor actually is a separated city like Kingston, Barrie, London, etc. and isn't part of the County.

Hmm ... so it is. Must have missed that ... and Kingston too ... when I lived there Kingston was in Frontenac County ... I guess City of Kitchener in Region of Waterloo would be a better example these days.

 

[spider]

That is, it isn't necessarily eternally martyred to suburban vulgarians...

delightful language! Even as a card carrying Suburban Vulgarian I applaud the turn of phrase.

 

[howl]

Amalgamation and de-amalgamation are both expensive things to implement and should not be taken lightly. Undoing something that is already well-established even if you don’t agree with it simply for some politically-biased reason is a clear sign of poor government.

For example, if you had a clear, well-studied and funded transit plan would you scrap it just because it violated some weird politically promise you had spouted during your campaign you had even though it was going to cost taxpayers millions of dollars and you didn’t have a better alternative plan in mind? Or, if you had something like, let’s say, a well-established registry for some sort of potentially dangerous weapon, would you scrap it just because you wanted to appease one small group of political supporters? Of course not, that would be crazy and a complete waste of taxpayer’s money. Get real people. We live in a sophisticated and logical society where we expect our leaders to have OUR best interest at heart, not their own personal political agenda.