JasonParis
Moderator
There are more Italian in the GTA than anywhere else on earth, save Roma.
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Why does Canada hate Toronto? We want love! :(
- Thread starter oreoshack
- Start date
- Status
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Cancerous
Guest
As a matter of fact, I’ve been a long time lurker and yes, I’ve read many threads on this forum.
I like the idea of having such a useful space where we can exchange our opinions about the city in a civilized and constructive manner, however, I think the we should get a bit more realistic and pragmatic.
I apologize if I offended you, I certainly didn’t do it deliberately, however, you can’t just block and shut down anyone who doesn’t share your opinion regarding Toronto.
I’m all for constructive discussion, but all I’ve seen so far is a bunch aggressive people blindly defending their city and refusing any alternative perspectives other than their own. In fact, they seem to be so shocked and in disbelief that they can’t even believe that I’m a Torontonian… and I’m really enjoying that!
Now that’s annoying because if you have bothered to read the first post of this thread, you’d realize that this entire thread started as a “my city is better than your city” argument. Toronto was announced to be superior and cities up north were derogatorily put down, so I believe it’s them you’d want to address!
Furthermore, it was “Hydrogen” and “oreoshack” who brought up and insulted Montreal in the second page, I merely replied to them. As far as I know, it’s not a crime to defend Montreal!
Finally, I NEVER said that Montreal was better than Toronto in everything. I said that Montreal was better in certain aspects, everybody knows that Toronto’s economy and wealth trumps that of Montreal since the 1970's.
See my reply above; you and the author of this thread were shitting all over Montreal and other cities to begin with. Practice what you preach, will you?
Well, how about you start providing some facts for a change? I think I’ve done my fair share already.
This is getting really sad for you… please stop embarrassing yourself, I told you that I don’t care.
Oh yeah, why am I not surprised? It’s the good old fashioned American method of self defence: I don’t care, everybody’s just jealous of me! (see page# 1, post# 12 for a reference)
Believe it or not, I don’t actually get excited or turned on by how strong the economy is.
I don’t care how rich my city is or what is the average income, what I care about is being able to have fun and enjoy my time and living life to the fullest.
By the way, I couldn’t help but notice that you posted all this @ 11:34 on a Saturday night, so I strongly suggest that you go get a life! You really should’ve been out enjoying the beautiful breezy weather yesterday instead of staring at your screen indoors posting angry posts.
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Cancerous
Guest
Hi Darkstar,
You're discrediting yourself there.
First of all, I' be happy to be on your side if you provide me with a proof that Italians in Toronto outnumber those in Montreal, but you can't just throw comments like that without any back up.
Secondly, last time I checked, Milan had a population of close to 1.5 million, do we really, honestly have more than that much here in the GTA? You know what, I'll go as far as to say that Italians in the entire province of Ontario do not outnumber those in Milan!
And I'm pretty sure that there are more Italians in New York City or Buenos Aires than there are in Toronto and Montreal combined.
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Cancerous
Guest
This is a completely different and irrelevant issue and I'd be happy to discuss it with you in a different forum.
In here, we discuss city issues, not socio-cultural ones.
allabootmatt
Senior Member
OK Cancerous, I agree that the more-Italians-than-anywhere thing is probably exaggerated. But let's talk facts--you referred to both Montreal's Jewish and Italian populations being the largest in Canada. Both of these statements are categorically untrue. Blithely ignoring the fact that you were called out on those falsehoods is not a way to make friends on the forum.
And for that matter nor is trading in the most hackneyed and boring Toronto vs. Montreal stereotypes, ones which anyone who has spent more than 48 hours in either city (and doesn't have some kind of axe to grind) knows are totally untrue. Further, in the case of Toronto they seem (surprise, surprise!) based on a familiarity with the city that is basic at best; do you seriously think that Clubland is the only place in the city with any nightlife!?!? I mean, my God. Get around a bit mate!
At the end of the day, Toronto and Montreal are two fantastic cities that are more similar than they are different, with respective strengths and weaknesses that are actually quite complementary. Canada is lucky to have them both. That's how I conceive of things, and I think that's how the vast, vast majority of other Torontonians do also. The strain of Toronto-bashing which persists in (mostly Anglo) Montreal is, in addition to being based on the most absurdly outdated caricatures of a stodgy "Toronto-the-good," as sure-fire an indication of deep civic insecurity as you will ever find anywhere. Losing the position of national superiority Montreal once enjoyed is traumatizing, just as it was in a place like Melbourne or St Petersburg, cities with very similar complexes vis-a-vis the cities which supplanted them. You should hear how Melburnians and Petersburgers talk about Sydney and Moscow. If you changed all the nouns, it could be Canada. What you are demonstrating to us is a classic case of second city syndrome.
The good news, however, is that as Montreal recovers from its long economic decline and builds on its legitimate strengths in things like fashion, music and high-tech industries the insecurity is going to start to evaporate. Montreal is actually in an enviable position right now. Its cultural life is probably as vibrant as ever, business is investing and the population is growing. It also has a sense of itself much stronger than Toronto's, something which comes from an amazing history and a genuine love Montrealers have for their town. In other words, there's nothing to be insecure about!
Meanwhile, as anyone who visits for more than a day knows, and as the vast, vast majority of the hundreds of thousands of Montrealers who have happily made Toronto home understand, the stereotypes which are the expressions of that insecurity are just laughably inaccurate. Yes, bars and nightclubs usually stay open somewhat later in Quebec than in Ontario, largely due to licensing laws. Beyond that, it's just so much BS.....
And for that matter nor is trading in the most hackneyed and boring Toronto vs. Montreal stereotypes, ones which anyone who has spent more than 48 hours in either city (and doesn't have some kind of axe to grind) knows are totally untrue. Further, in the case of Toronto they seem (surprise, surprise!) based on a familiarity with the city that is basic at best; do you seriously think that Clubland is the only place in the city with any nightlife!?!? I mean, my God. Get around a bit mate!
At the end of the day, Toronto and Montreal are two fantastic cities that are more similar than they are different, with respective strengths and weaknesses that are actually quite complementary. Canada is lucky to have them both. That's how I conceive of things, and I think that's how the vast, vast majority of other Torontonians do also. The strain of Toronto-bashing which persists in (mostly Anglo) Montreal is, in addition to being based on the most absurdly outdated caricatures of a stodgy "Toronto-the-good," as sure-fire an indication of deep civic insecurity as you will ever find anywhere. Losing the position of national superiority Montreal once enjoyed is traumatizing, just as it was in a place like Melbourne or St Petersburg, cities with very similar complexes vis-a-vis the cities which supplanted them. You should hear how Melburnians and Petersburgers talk about Sydney and Moscow. If you changed all the nouns, it could be Canada. What you are demonstrating to us is a classic case of second city syndrome.
The good news, however, is that as Montreal recovers from its long economic decline and builds on its legitimate strengths in things like fashion, music and high-tech industries the insecurity is going to start to evaporate. Montreal is actually in an enviable position right now. Its cultural life is probably as vibrant as ever, business is investing and the population is growing. It also has a sense of itself much stronger than Toronto's, something which comes from an amazing history and a genuine love Montrealers have for their town. In other words, there's nothing to be insecure about!
Meanwhile, as anyone who visits for more than a day knows, and as the vast, vast majority of the hundreds of thousands of Montrealers who have happily made Toronto home understand, the stereotypes which are the expressions of that insecurity are just laughably inaccurate. Yes, bars and nightclubs usually stay open somewhat later in Quebec than in Ontario, largely due to licensing laws. Beyond that, it's just so much BS.....
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Hydrogen
Guest
You are in error. I did not shit on Montreal on this thread. In fact, I responded to the original poster suggesting he had a bad attitude when complaining how other people hated Toronto. You have not bothered to read through this thread and have made assumptions.
You are the one who has gone off making unsupportable assertions. And I will repeat: you do exactly what you accuse people in Toronto of doing. You are incapable of seeing this, which suggests a character flaw.
syn
Senior Member
LOL
You should visit Toronto sometime. Maybe then you'll get over the idea that it's some conservative business town.
MisterF
Senior Member
You're the one who was bringing up liquor laws, which are a socio-cultural issue and regulated by the province, not the city. So you can bring up socio-cultural issues but nobody else can?
He's not trying to. He's a troll. All his posts are in this thread and their sole purpose is to attack Toronto. He'll be banned eventually I'm sure.
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Cancerous
Guest
Hi allabootmatt,
I wish there was a way you can find out where I live from my IP address or something, but then again, I really don't care if you continue to think that I am... I'm not going to spend more time trying to prove to you otherwise, I think it's more important to talk about Toronto and how to make it a better city.
Again, for the second time... could you please provide me with a proof?
Believe me, I'm a very social person who loves to make friends, but you're telling me that what I said is not true, yet you don't provide anything that convinces me or makes me think otherwise!
The only reason I end up there is because everything else shuts down. Could you please suggest any places that have a nightlife other than Clubland? I'd be happy to visit them!
This is getting a bit comical... why is it so hard to accept the fact that I'm a Torontonian? I mean, what purpose would it serve me to lie to you? If I was a Montrealer, I'd be happy to disclose that to you because as far as I know, it wasn't shameful or punishable by death...
I wish there was a way you can find out where I live from my IP address or something, but then again, I really don't care if you continue to think that I am... I'm not going to spend more time trying to prove to you otherwise, I think it's more important to talk about Toronto and how to make it a better city.
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Cancerous
Guest
Alright, I'm happy that you don't agree with him.
Thanks.
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Cancerous
Guest
Fine, open up a thread and I'll give my two cents.
Bringing up shortcomings and pointing out inaccuracies means an attack to you?
So anyone who doesn't share your opinion will be banned and shut down?
syn
Senior Member
It's pretty obvious you've never been to Toronto...otherwise you wouldn't be spewing the same ridiculous stereotypes people have been using for decades.
Hey what are you doing sitting behind your computer on such a nice day? Get a life!
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Cancerous
Guest
and why are you doing the same?
allabootmatt
Senior Member
Italians--Toronto CMA 429,000
Montreal CMA 224,000
http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo27k.htm
Jews--Toronto CMA 164,000
Montreal CMA 88,000
http://www12.statcan.ca/english/cen...0&VNAMEE=&VNAMEF=&FL=0&RL=0&FREE=0&GID=431565
These are 2001 figures. In both cases, the metro population in Toronto is about double Montreal's. When we get into the figures for visible minorities, the gap in diversity becomes pretty staggering.
As for nightlife, are you kidding me? Have you never been curious about, say, Little Italy, or King West, or Queen West, or Parkdale, or the emerging scene on Dundas and Ossington? Or the gaybourhood along and around Church Street, or the Danforth? Or the Brazilian/Azorean neighbourhoods at the far ends of Dundas and College?
Those are all various degrees of happening for bars and such, ranging from what can feel like a full-on street party (Little Italy) to much more subtle pockets of funky places to go (Parkdale). The reason Clubland is quiet on weekdays is that most of the people who go out in Clubland are from the suburbs. In the areas where locals go out things are much, much busier through the week. You should check them out sometime. There's a big city out there. That you think Clubland is actually the only place with nightlife in Toronto tells me you don't know it very well. There's no shame in that.
Get out and explore, and you might like what you find.
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Cancerous
Guest
Excellent, thank you. Now I'm convinced and ready to take back what I said.
I just wish others could do the same.
I've been to all of them except the gaybourhood and they don't stay open till 2AM, they just simply don't.
But I don't think it, I know it.
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