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Who will be the next Liberal leader?

The evidence is overwhelming that climate change is happening, and at the same time as CO2 volumes in the atmsophere have skyrocketed since 1800 at an exponential rate. As well, CO2 emission levels coincided quite closely to changes in the global climate (ie ice ages)

I am under the increasing opinion that those who refuse to accept the increasing scientific evidence either has an interest in discrediting this, or is like this bird:

ostrich3.gif
 
Are you suggesting that ice shelves are supposed to be permanent structures?

I think what's being suggested is that the rate of glacier breakup and melting is not normal.
 
spmarshall, first, carbon dioxide is always low during ice age cycles. Second, the graph that is posted is not truth on the basis that you posted it. Third, you might want to ask what is causing the cycles in that incomplete graph that you have posted. And finally, so what? From that graph alone, how do you know that there is a link between temperature increases and carbon dioxide? There are better graphs matching temperature variation and sunspot cycles.

You might want to pull your blinders off - if you dare.

Also note that a peak level of C02 of over 400 ppm was recorded in about 1700. You can see Neftel, A., Oeschger, H. Schwander, J. Stuaffer, B. and Zumbrunn, R. "Ice Core Sample Measurements Give Atmospheric C02 Content During the Past 40,000 Years." Nature 295, 1982, 220-23.
This measure is considered contoversial because it does not fit well with the prejudice that C02 content is supposed to be low during these times. Science is full of surprises.

Also note that studies of a collection of leaves preserved in peat bogs and are dated between 10,000 and 9,300 years old provide a very different measure of atmospheric C02 content. This leaf collection shows atmospheric carbon dioxide levels ranging from the high 200's to peaks of over 350 ppm. Different measures provide different numbers, bringing more questions to your certainty.

Different ice cores from different locations in the Antarctic also have netted different results with respect to C02 content as well. This fact exists to this day. Stated C02 content are statistical measures, not absolutes. If you infer them as such, you are making an error. All you have to do us change your measures and you get different numbers. That is the risk with averaging anything.


I think what's being suggested is that the rate of glacier breakup and melting is not normal.

Compared to what? There are not exactly huge records of ice-shelf observation, are there?

But then again, read this:

web.awi-bremerhaven.de/Pu...tract.html
 
Re: The next Liberal leader: will he melt or freeze?

Ask the scientific community.

That's what I've been suggesting you do. The IPCC and the gloomy newspaper articles that follow it are not the scientific community. Nor do they constitute the full body of scientific knowledge on this issue as there is, as of yet, no complete body of knowledge concerning the climate. But you've missed that point all along.


There is evidence that during the mid phase of the Holocene (post ice age) that temperatures were three degrees warmer in the Arctic than they are today (about 4,000 to 6,000 years ago). This is considered to be the warmest period in this current interglacial period (yes, between freeze-ups. We're in mid ice-age). It is called the "climate optimum," and it melted a considerable portion of the Arctic ice (seemingly without human help). Some of the evidence is found in fossil driftwood locked into uplifted beaches in the Arctic.

Climate is, and always has been, variable. It's probably the most comprehensive thing that can be said about it.


spmarshall, you pulled your little graph. How come?
 
Re: The next Liberal leader: will he melt or freeze?

^I know that. The question is whether this climate change is natural or artificial. There is very compelling evidence it's the latter.
 
Re: The next Liberal leader: will he melt or freeze?

^You say compelling, but it is really not so, not when so little is actually understood. In the absence of understanding the evidence in full, can it be said that one has arrived at an accurate conclusion?
 
Re: The next Liberal leader: will he melt or freeze?

^It isn't so to you.

This pointless. We don't agree, might as well leave it at that.
 
Re: The next Liberal leader: will he melt or freeze?

Fine with me.
 
Re: The next Liberal leader: will he melt or freeze?

Most of us agree with the overwhelming scientific consensus, Bizorky doesn't. Everyone's free to believe what they want I guess.
 
Re: The next Liberal leader: will he melt or freeze?

It's called being skeptical. It's a stand that questions phrases like "overwhelming scientific belief" because they are decoration. You invoke this phrase as a means of persuasion. You don't have actual proof beyond newspaper articles, or the pronouncements of those scientists who support this conjecture, that a majority of scientists believe anything in particular about this issue.

Remember that , broadly stated, environmentalism is a political movement, and the vast majority of environmentalists are not scientists.

As for this all being a minority view among scientists, here is a petition that is critical of the present climate change concerns hyped by the IPCC. It has been signed by over 19,000 scientists and science professionals.

www.oism.org/pproject/

Here is a list of those who have signed the protest:

www.sitewave.net/pproject...ystate.htm
 
Re: The next Liberal leader: will he melt or freeze?

where the hell is the global warming? it's friggen freezing!
 
Re: The next Liberal leader: will he melt or freeze?

Surely if Dubya is finally sold on the concept of global warning, bizorky's convincing won't take that much longer. ;)
 
Re: The next Liberal leader wants colder weather

It'll be a cold day in hell...
or something like that.

I'm just curious, but is there a desire to see a halt to research that does not conform to this belief in anthropogenic C02 and climate change?


Nevertheless, the research goes on anyway:

Effects of solar irradiance:

www.agu.org/pubs/crossref...7142.shtml

Effects of cosmic rays on low-level cloud cover:

public.web.cern.ch/public...ud-en.html
 
Re: The next Liberal leader wants colder weather

Question:

How much have all those bombs that Dubya sr and jr dropped, contribute to global warming?

I have a feeling that it's gonna cost one or two feet in the rise of the seal level, and that's a conservative estimate, in my opinion.

Bet it's more like 5 or 10.

I really believe that all that HEAT is a major contributor to global warming, and it's not a scientific fact, it's a gut feeling that is so strong, that I don't think anybody can change my mind.

But please try, I want to know if there is any scientific basis here, because those non-stopp, CNN fireworks made me shake my head in shock and awe.
 

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