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adma
Guest
No, it isn't only for the poor. It's also for the rich and smart. As opposed to the rich and dumb, who're most of those car-dependent Italo-Woodbridgeans you love to pick on...
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cdl42
Guest
Sorry folks, but TTC ridership goes up when the economy is good and goes down when it tanks. A better economy means that more people have jobs to get to and can afford to take more discretionary trips. As Mike points out, the clear majority of the TTC's passengers have access to a car and ride by choice.
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billonlogan
Guest
Is it really choice or just sick and tired sitting in traffic?
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Ed007Toronto
Guest
Unless its illegal to drive it is a choice.
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miketoronto
Guest
It is a choice. Because is driving a choice then? If you live in an area where you need a car to get to the store.
While traffic and stuff has an impact, you can't deny alot of the ridership is choice, when the trains are packed at 10PM at night.
And no matter what people have a choice. My cousin for example lives like 5min from a GO TRAIN station, works 9-5, and works within walking distance of Union Station. Yet he won't take public transit under any conditions.
He puts up with the traffic, high parking rates, etc.
So it is a choice.
A good city needs good public transit.
Also considering the ridership stats Toronto transit has broken it has to be choice ridership. GO TRANSIT beat its one year projections in 6 months back in 1967. If thats not choice ridership, I don't know what is.
When you provide good quality, fast transit service, people will leave their cars at home.
The largest factor in non transit users in Toronto not using transit is that transit is so slow. Not that they don't want to ride it.
While traffic and stuff has an impact, you can't deny alot of the ridership is choice, when the trains are packed at 10PM at night.
And no matter what people have a choice. My cousin for example lives like 5min from a GO TRAIN station, works 9-5, and works within walking distance of Union Station. Yet he won't take public transit under any conditions.
He puts up with the traffic, high parking rates, etc.
So it is a choice.
A good city needs good public transit.
Also considering the ridership stats Toronto transit has broken it has to be choice ridership. GO TRANSIT beat its one year projections in 6 months back in 1967. If thats not choice ridership, I don't know what is.
When you provide good quality, fast transit service, people will leave their cars at home.
The largest factor in non transit users in Toronto not using transit is that transit is so slow. Not that they don't want to ride it.
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scarberiankhatru
Guest
"As Mike points out, the clear majority of the TTC's passengers have access to a car and ride by choice."
I've always doubted that the clear majority of riders have their own car sitting unused at home in the driveway 100% of the time. For example, kids can't drive and many seniors don't drive. Virtually everyone has access to a car sometimes, but how many TTC riders have unlimited access all the time? Lots of people have access to rides in other people's cars, but that's not the same as access to their own car.
I've always doubted that the clear majority of riders have their own car sitting unused at home in the driveway 100% of the time. For example, kids can't drive and many seniors don't drive. Virtually everyone has access to a car sometimes, but how many TTC riders have unlimited access all the time? Lots of people have access to rides in other people's cars, but that's not the same as access to their own car.
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miketoronto
Guest
Well its easy. Most TTC riders take transit downtown. So they do have access to a car.
Most riders won't take transit anywhere else but downtown. So thats how the clear majority have cars.
And thats why TTC ridership is tied to downtown employment. Also during rush hours many people will leave their car at home and hop on a bus.
65% of TTC riders have a car. A further 15% choose not to own a car eventhough they have high enough incomes. I guess that would be more of the inner city population then suburbanites.
So you can see how the clear majority are "choice" riders.
Kids and seniors are "captive" and make up the 20% who have no choice but to take transit.
Now where we need to work on "choice" ridership is the suburban employment areas and stuff like that.
Most riders won't take transit anywhere else but downtown. So thats how the clear majority have cars.
And thats why TTC ridership is tied to downtown employment. Also during rush hours many people will leave their car at home and hop on a bus.
65% of TTC riders have a car. A further 15% choose not to own a car eventhough they have high enough incomes. I guess that would be more of the inner city population then suburbanites.
So you can see how the clear majority are "choice" riders.
Kids and seniors are "captive" and make up the 20% who have no choice but to take transit.
Now where we need to work on "choice" ridership is the suburban employment areas and stuff like that.
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spmarshall
Guest
I do not own a car, nor do I have full-time access to a car. Yet I am a choice rider, because I can choose to buy and drive one - it wouldn't make a lot of sense for me (living on a decent bus line, work a block from the subway, car being so expensive), but I could do this and be able to pay for it.
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miketoronto
Guest
Yep Sean. Thats the way my sister is. She gave up her car like 10 years ago, and uses TTC. She can afford a car, but does not want one.
Most people in Toronto can afford a car if they want. So except for the 20% who are captive, the the rest of TTC riders have to like riding it I guess. Considering TTC only carries like 20% of all trips in Toronto, its not that many people that actually choose transit anyway.
But it is the "choice" rider we must capture. And it is a hard task if we don't provide proper services. I look at neighbours on my block all the time, and think "what would make them take transit more" and its a hard question. These people pull in very good and high incomes, don't care about spending money on cars, etc. So its a hard task.
Most people in Toronto can afford a car if they want. So except for the 20% who are captive, the the rest of TTC riders have to like riding it I guess. Considering TTC only carries like 20% of all trips in Toronto, its not that many people that actually choose transit anyway.
But it is the "choice" rider we must capture. And it is a hard task if we don't provide proper services. I look at neighbours on my block all the time, and think "what would make them take transit more" and its a hard question. These people pull in very good and high incomes, don't care about spending money on cars, etc. So its a hard task.
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Ed007Toronto
Guest
There's only two things that will get your neighbours to use transit:
1. Very high gas costs. Say 2 or 3 dollars a litre.
2. Congestion on a level found in Manhattan, London or other major cities.
I predict that both of these things will happen in Toronto sooner rather than later. As a non-car owner I'm glad I structured my live/work situation so I will never need to own a car.
1. Very high gas costs. Say 2 or 3 dollars a litre.
2. Congestion on a level found in Manhattan, London or other major cities.
I predict that both of these things will happen in Toronto sooner rather than later. As a non-car owner I'm glad I structured my live/work situation so I will never need to own a car.
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miketoronto
Guest
Ed, I don't want my neighbours to be forced into transit. I want them to take it because they want to and because it offers a service they like.
Some do take it, but more could then do.
And I don't think gas prices will stop them from driving. You tell me how gas prices is going to stop one of my neighbours from driving, when her and her husband pull in well over $100,000 together if not more? These people don't care about gas prices.
People may complain about gas prices but they can afford it. And its not going to stop them from driving.
So we gotta find another way to get people onto the buses
Actually from talking with some of my neighbours, many admit they like parking at the GO TRAIN or subway. But they won't take the bus to get to the subway.
But really getting people on transit is harder then just raising gas prices. You take away the high-rise projects from suburban Toronto, and the average family on places like my street and most suburban streets, has a very high income and does not care about car prices.
Thats why we must get the TTC back into the way it was in the 1980's. Back then it was much more a part of the city and suburbs. Back then my family was one of the only on the block to have two cars, because many of the couples had one person who commuted by TTC to work downtown or something. You don't see that anymore as much. Everyone's in cars now no matter where they are going.
Its kinda sad more people don't give transit a try, because it really is a nice way to travel and not as bad as people might think. Except for the travel time issues sometimes.
Getting back to choice riders, I was almost in shock when reading stats for the Hamilton Street Railway. They are totally the opposite of Toronto. 80% of the HSR ridership is captive, meaning they have no other way to get around.
Some do take it, but more could then do.
And I don't think gas prices will stop them from driving. You tell me how gas prices is going to stop one of my neighbours from driving, when her and her husband pull in well over $100,000 together if not more? These people don't care about gas prices.
People may complain about gas prices but they can afford it. And its not going to stop them from driving.
So we gotta find another way to get people onto the buses
Actually from talking with some of my neighbours, many admit they like parking at the GO TRAIN or subway. But they won't take the bus to get to the subway.
But really getting people on transit is harder then just raising gas prices. You take away the high-rise projects from suburban Toronto, and the average family on places like my street and most suburban streets, has a very high income and does not care about car prices.
Thats why we must get the TTC back into the way it was in the 1980's. Back then it was much more a part of the city and suburbs. Back then my family was one of the only on the block to have two cars, because many of the couples had one person who commuted by TTC to work downtown or something. You don't see that anymore as much. Everyone's in cars now no matter where they are going.
Its kinda sad more people don't give transit a try, because it really is a nice way to travel and not as bad as people might think. Except for the travel time issues sometimes.
Getting back to choice riders, I was almost in shock when reading stats for the Hamilton Street Railway. They are totally the opposite of Toronto. 80% of the HSR ridership is captive, meaning they have no other way to get around.
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Chuck100
Guest
On one hand, the TTC's high percentage of choice riders proves that it is truly a convenient system to use. But on the other hand, that's a huge weakness. Choice riders are greedy; they only use transit because it benefits them in some way, be it time, cost, or less aggravation. Once that advantage disappears, they have no hesitation to return to their cars, no loyalty at all to transit.
In the 90s, the TTC's ridership plummetted 25%, entirely due to choice riders abandoning the system in vast numbers. 100 million annual rides gone. It is of utmost importance for the TTC to provide superior transit service that exceeds North American standards, otherwise that drop will happen again. The TTC's ridership will always remain uniquely unstable, as long as it is so dependent on choice riders.
In the 90s, the TTC's ridership plummetted 25%, entirely due to choice riders abandoning the system in vast numbers. 100 million annual rides gone. It is of utmost importance for the TTC to provide superior transit service that exceeds North American standards, otherwise that drop will happen again. The TTC's ridership will always remain uniquely unstable, as long as it is so dependent on choice riders.
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miketoronto
Guest
Unless more choice riders choose to be transit riders full time and not own a car. And its those riders like Sean, my sister, and even myself who the TTC has to worry about and provide good service so we don't feel the need to buy a car.
This generation is going to make or lose transit. We are either going to shift people onto transit or not. And its the younge people now we gotta get onto transit and also keep once they are pulling in their $80,000 a year.
We already lost Chuck100 who is getting a car now that hes making real money
We gotta make sure more younge people don't abandon transit like Chuck100
This generation is going to make or lose transit. We are either going to shift people onto transit or not. And its the younge people now we gotta get onto transit and also keep once they are pulling in their $80,000 a year.
We already lost Chuck100 who is getting a car now that hes making real money
We gotta make sure more younge people don't abandon transit like Chuck100
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Chuck100
Guest
Ok, that's a bit strange to read.
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billonlogan
Guest
If TTC read our minds...
Courtesy: Toronto Sun
By SUE-ANN LEVY
At 10 a.m. yesterday, a slight man dressed in a black pinstriped suit and carrying a doctor's black bag full of props climbed onto a crammed Yonge subway car heading north.
The Red Rocket riders tried to ignore the strange intruder -- who resembled a male version of Yvonne deCarlo's character on The Munsters TV show from the 1960s -- but curiosity got the better of them.
Before long, Dr. Mysterion -- who kicked off the TTC's $20,000 "pizzazz month" with his act yesterday -- had riders transfixed with his ability to bend spoons by staring at them or to guess a word on people's minds.
"I'm a testimony to the evolution of the human mind ... I'm also very modest," said the self-professed PhD in ESP, who takes the TTC whenever he performs around the city.
He'd already made me smile when he figured out the word on my mind: Fat. (So I'm a little weight-obsessed.) I couldn't help but laugh when I asked where (on the subway) I could find TTC chairman Howard Moscoe. "He's sleeping," responded Dr. Mysterion, who claims to have a 90% accuracy rate. (I later found out Moscoe was in a meeting at 10. However, some would say he's asleep at the switch when it comes to understanding that commuters have no stomach for more fare hikes.)
As for deputy mayor and TTC commissioner, Sandra Bussin, Mysterion said she was "walking the streets" near Yonge and Bloor. (Bussin couldn't be reached for comment. Still, she did tell me recently that she walks a lot.)
This how Mysterion hooked the crowd. "He brought magic to my day," said Theresa Sheldon after her encounter with the mentalist. "He's a great entertainer ... very intuitive."
Even Douglas Bassett, the former CTV executive who now heads up an advisory board for Quebecor (which owns the Sun), got into act. "I think it's wonderful what the TTC is doing," said Bassett, also a subject of Mysterion's schtick.
Okay, okay, I confess: Riding the Red Rocket with Mysterion the Mind Reader DID take my mind off being crammed into that subway car. It was also mindless fun.
I've even got to hand it to Moscoe -- whom I derided recently for coming up with a month of "pizzazz" activities to, in my view, soften the blow of last week's TTC fare hike.
Nevertheless, it's too bad the TTC blue suits can't run the entire system with the same pizzazz. They've already anticipated the loss of 3.3 million riders this year from the fare hike, although Moscoe insisted yesterday "they'll come back."
Not so fast. Sadly, the TTC brass seem far more adept at taking care of themselves (one only has to look at the 55% increase in the number of suits making $100,000 or more compared to 2003) than at keeping the stations and their vehicles clean or making the trains and buses run on time.
One reader, who's been a subway rider for 20 years, e-mailed me last week to say he's never seen anything this bad. He said the shared Metropass -- which the TTC bright lights introduced to lure more riders -- has clogged the system and likely brings in less money than before its inception.
"The (subway) cars are full all day long," he said. "I now drive instead, despite living right at Yonge and Bloor."
Don't ask Valerie Murray about the attitude of TTC officials either. The disabled Upper Gerrard St. resident said yesterday she has a "very sore knee" from being forced to walk a kilometre to catch the streetcar now that her street is undergoing track reconstruction.
Murray tried to convince Bussin and TTC officials to put a small bus on the route when the 506 streetcar was taken out of service last Monday. Her pleas fell on deaf ears.
She was less than thrilled to hear about the money being spent on a pizzazz campaign. "That really frosts me," Murray said. "Better to put proper heat in the streetcars or have windows that can open or to get the streetcars cleaned!"
She's right. Those are the issues on riders' minds. With apologies to Dr. Mysterion, of course.
Courtesy: Toronto Sun
By SUE-ANN LEVY
At 10 a.m. yesterday, a slight man dressed in a black pinstriped suit and carrying a doctor's black bag full of props climbed onto a crammed Yonge subway car heading north.
The Red Rocket riders tried to ignore the strange intruder -- who resembled a male version of Yvonne deCarlo's character on The Munsters TV show from the 1960s -- but curiosity got the better of them.
Before long, Dr. Mysterion -- who kicked off the TTC's $20,000 "pizzazz month" with his act yesterday -- had riders transfixed with his ability to bend spoons by staring at them or to guess a word on people's minds.
"I'm a testimony to the evolution of the human mind ... I'm also very modest," said the self-professed PhD in ESP, who takes the TTC whenever he performs around the city.
He'd already made me smile when he figured out the word on my mind: Fat. (So I'm a little weight-obsessed.) I couldn't help but laugh when I asked where (on the subway) I could find TTC chairman Howard Moscoe. "He's sleeping," responded Dr. Mysterion, who claims to have a 90% accuracy rate. (I later found out Moscoe was in a meeting at 10. However, some would say he's asleep at the switch when it comes to understanding that commuters have no stomach for more fare hikes.)
As for deputy mayor and TTC commissioner, Sandra Bussin, Mysterion said she was "walking the streets" near Yonge and Bloor. (Bussin couldn't be reached for comment. Still, she did tell me recently that she walks a lot.)
This how Mysterion hooked the crowd. "He brought magic to my day," said Theresa Sheldon after her encounter with the mentalist. "He's a great entertainer ... very intuitive."
Even Douglas Bassett, the former CTV executive who now heads up an advisory board for Quebecor (which owns the Sun), got into act. "I think it's wonderful what the TTC is doing," said Bassett, also a subject of Mysterion's schtick.
Okay, okay, I confess: Riding the Red Rocket with Mysterion the Mind Reader DID take my mind off being crammed into that subway car. It was also mindless fun.
I've even got to hand it to Moscoe -- whom I derided recently for coming up with a month of "pizzazz" activities to, in my view, soften the blow of last week's TTC fare hike.
Nevertheless, it's too bad the TTC blue suits can't run the entire system with the same pizzazz. They've already anticipated the loss of 3.3 million riders this year from the fare hike, although Moscoe insisted yesterday "they'll come back."
Not so fast. Sadly, the TTC brass seem far more adept at taking care of themselves (one only has to look at the 55% increase in the number of suits making $100,000 or more compared to 2003) than at keeping the stations and their vehicles clean or making the trains and buses run on time.
One reader, who's been a subway rider for 20 years, e-mailed me last week to say he's never seen anything this bad. He said the shared Metropass -- which the TTC bright lights introduced to lure more riders -- has clogged the system and likely brings in less money than before its inception.
"The (subway) cars are full all day long," he said. "I now drive instead, despite living right at Yonge and Bloor."
Don't ask Valerie Murray about the attitude of TTC officials either. The disabled Upper Gerrard St. resident said yesterday she has a "very sore knee" from being forced to walk a kilometre to catch the streetcar now that her street is undergoing track reconstruction.
Murray tried to convince Bussin and TTC officials to put a small bus on the route when the 506 streetcar was taken out of service last Monday. Her pleas fell on deaf ears.
She was less than thrilled to hear about the money being spent on a pizzazz campaign. "That really frosts me," Murray said. "Better to put proper heat in the streetcars or have windows that can open or to get the streetcars cleaned!"
She's right. Those are the issues on riders' minds. With apologies to Dr. Mysterion, of course.