What's the FLAP about?

[salvius]

I don't get this... I don't get this as a vegetarian. We kill hundreds of thousands of animals a year in this city for burgers, boots, and extremely tacky coats, but there's an up-in-arms group about a few thousand birds hitting towers. Honestly? Really? It's absurd.

 

[EnviroTO]

The populations of farmed animals is controlled and I doubt there will ever be a time where cows go exinct unless we don't use them anymore. Animals in the wild dying as a result of human interference are probably more at risk.

Isn't the issue not really the lights but more a result of birds being able to see the interior and believing they can fly in? Birds fly into big clear windows on houses in the middle of the day. I would think that external lights would reduce the problem that interior lights create when light outside is less than what is inside.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

maybe they wanna die? how do we not know that they could have joined a suicide pact? on the other hand, how do we not know that they didn't join some terrorist group? maybe they were trained by al queda to fly into those buildings!!

 

[Hydrogen]

I was hit by a pigeon last week. I don't know who was more freaked out by the event.

 

[salvius]

The populations of farmed animals is controlled and I doubt there will ever be a time where cows go exinct unless we don't use them anymore. Animals in the wild dying as a result of human interference are probably more at risk.

We can slaughter as many animals as we want as long as we have 'enough' of them--as defined by us? Sure sucks to be a pig in that lottery. (btw, sorry if I sound like an asshole here).

Isn't the issue not really the lights but more a result of birds being able to see the interior and believing they can fly in? Birds fly into big clear windows on houses in the middle of the day. I would think that external lights would reduce the problem that interior lights create when light outside is less than what is inside.

I think they do get attracted to light, but you bring a very good point. Birds will fly STRAIGHT into those windows during day time. When I lived in a building, it would happen with some regularity (i.e. more than once). I'm guessing they've studied this somehow so they're not talking out of their behind, but I do wonder what the % is that flies into windows day vs night.

 

[Hydrogen]

We can slaughter as many animals as we want as long as we have 'enough' of them--as defined by us?

I don't think today's milking cows could live without us. They must be milked every day or will eventually die.

 

[ElChico]

Rather than redesign the whole city, couldn't we just set up a hatchery, out on the spit or somewhere? We're only talking about replacing a few thousand bird casualties a year after all. People with balconies could offer foster home nesting sites; pigeons, for example, return year after year once they find a nesting site they like. Little chicks can be kinda cute.

Many of these birds are rare and don't breed in Ontario. Also very few birds will nest on man made structures, besides, Rock Pigeons are introduced, non-migratory and not a target of a program like this.

I think they do get attracted to light, but you bring a very good point. Birds will fly STRAIGHT into those windows during day time. When I lived in a building, it would happen with some regularity (i.e. more than once). I'm guessing they've studied this somehow so they're not talking out of their behind, but I do wonder what the % is that flies into windows day vs night.

The majority of songbird migration happens at night.

 

[EnviroTO]

We can slaughter as many animals as we want as long as we have 'enough' of them--as defined by us?

Are you going to prevent the frog from eating the fly, the snake from eating the frog, the lion from eating the gazelle? The intestine of man is a medium length by body size and man has only one stomach... signs that man was made to eat meat. If a slab of beef could be replicated or grown in a lab with out creating a cow brain I would be all for it but for now I think we have to accept our place in the food chain and be thankful for the cow and respectful of the cow that feeds us.

 

[AndreaPalladio]

Then we should do everything possible to ensure that cows don't hurt themselves by walking into overlit buildings - just like we should do with birds.

 

[Pep'rJack]

If a slab of beef could be replicated or grown in a lab with out creating a cow brain I would be all for it

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/06/71201

"Edible, lab-grown ground chuck that smells and tastes just like the real thing might take a place ... at supermarkets in just a few years, thanks to some determined meat researchers. Scientists routinely grow small quantities of muscle cells in petri dishes for experiments, but now for the first time a concentrated effort is under way to mass-produce meat in this manner. Henk Haagsman, a professor of meat sciences at Utrecht University, and his Dutch colleagues are working on growing artificial pork meat out of pig stem cells. They hope to grow a form of minced meat suitable for burgers, sausages and pizza toppings within the next few years. Currently involved in identifying the type of stem cells that will multiply the most to create larger quantities of meat within a bioreactor, the team hopes to have concrete results by 2009..."

Curious: how many of you would eat this, and how many wouldn't? Maybe a worthy poll subject...

 

[Bogtrotter]

Sounds gross- I won't be eating it. I want the real thing.

 

[Mongo]

I would want to find out more information, on such things as contamination and safety, but if it does turn out to be safe (which it should be -- in fact, it should end up safer to eat than what we have now, due to no growth hormones or antibiotics needed, and no animal diseases), and the flavour, texture and price are reasonable, then yes, I would switch.

Bill

 

[Urban Shocker]

With a nice glass of red wine it might go down a treat.

 

[Mongo]

Or you could take the 'Restaurant at the End of the Universe' approach, and genetically engineer a cow to WANT to be slaughtered for meat -- and in fact raise its intelligence enough to advise those about to eat it on which parts are the best-testing today.

Bill

 

[Bogtrotter]

If after a number of years people don't start dropping dead or developing bizarre symptoms like growing horns I'd be inclined to give it a try. I find it hard to believe that test-tube meat would replace a good prime rib or primo steak. I'm sure the price of real meat would go up if this ever caught on as a legitimate alternative.