What makes Toronto... Toronto?

[kettal]

You can walk along a street and hear 10 different languages being spoken.

I don't know if this is necessarily a good thing, but it is the only truly unique thing about Toronto that I can think of right now.

 

[golodhendil]

The TTC is getting this. PRESTO Cards are to be rolled out extensively, it has already begun. Full implementation should be done by 2011 on non-TTC systems, and limited TTC. Shortly thereafter, the whole TTC. It will work on GO/TTC/YRT/Viva/DurhamMississauga/Brampton/Oakville/Burlington and Hamilton Transit.

Link is here.

http://www.prestocard.ca/en/

Shortly thereafter? It would be a miracle if it's fully implemented throughout TTC even 5 years later, if not a decade. But, better late than never (20 years after HK; 15 years after London, Singapore, and most of Japan; 10 years after Boston; etc), and we will probably still be ahead of NYC, if that's any consolation.

Platform edge doors require automatic train control. This is coming too. The TTC has begun converting the Yonge Subway to ATC; Sheppard is already ready. There is no approval for the doors yet; and they probably have to wait until a downtown relief line is built as they actually do reduce capacity slightly.

But keep in mind this is not cheap, we need to prioritize. Full ATC and platform edge doors in all subway stations is $1-2B(illion)

ATC is coming for multiple reasons regardless of PED/PSD, so it's not useful to conflate their costs. Also, as discussed previously in this thread, there are ways to decrease the cost (eg by installing half-height PED rather than full-height PSD), and from other cities' experience even full-height PSD is not as expensive as the numbers coming from TTC. And what does the DRL have to do with PSDs in the rest of the system?

Don't just compare the TTC with the biggest, most successful system though.

MTR is hardly the biggest and most successful system.

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Re: Banks ranking
According to a report in March by Bloomberg, the 4 biggest banks in Canada by asset climbed to positions 7-10 among North American banks. However, internationally, Canadian banks are still far from the top, let alone "3 within the top 15". According to the March FT Global 500, all of Big 5 are in the world's top 50 banks by market capitalization, with the top one, RBC, at #11, followed by TD at #20 and Scotia at #26. In terms of total asset, as of last month, the only Canadian bank in the top 50 is RBC, at #43.

 

[Tewder]

What timeo, bleepbluuup and I are talking about is the character of the city as a neutral medium within which locals can live as they wish, and become who they want to be, with minimal pressures to conform. We find our own ways in life, celebrating our differences freely, live and let live. We'd be a parochial city indeed to limit the possibilities of our citizens by imposing a "melting pot" concept - at various levels - that's contrary to those values of comfort with diversity and not opting in if one doesn't want to. timeo identifies that Toronto characteristic as not sexy, and I think the generally understated and neutral characteristic of Toronto's locally-designed architecture is another expression of that character - regardless of whatever foreigners build while they're passing through.

I think to talk of 'neutrality' is to overstate the point. Toronto is not neutral nothingness. It has just as many confining poles of conformity or uniting poles of identity as other cities, and it is as a collective (or melting pot) that it does practise and celebrate such an inclusive tolerance that is both welcoming and inspiring, as you say.

 

[Tacoma]

Can't be 2009 numbers. C is currently $108bn, while RY is $78bn. CBC's numbers are way off.

Check in here for updated list. Canada has none in the top 10 but RBC did make top 13 in terms of market captialization.

But the point is Financial Services is far from being a distinctive feature of TO.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Fin'l services, and Toronto in general

Check in here for updated list. Canada has none in the top 10 but RBC did make top 13 in terms of market captialization.

But the point is Financial Services is far from being a distinctive feature of TO.

Having three banks in the top 25 by market cap., despite the fact that we're a nation of ~30mn and a city of ~3mn, is pretty impressive. It's even more impressive now post-meltdown, but even beforehand, Toronto's grip on Canadian financial services is a major drawing card internationally.

Interesting article about one banker's family's repatriation in G&M RE Friday:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/banking-on-to/article1282343/

This guy is way above me on the food chain, but I agree with his conclusion. One of the unique factors about Toronto is that you can live downtown and still have a beautiful, green neighbourhood. And, despite the fact that his particular neighbourhood is posh Rosedale, it's not only Forest Hill types that can do that -- Leslieville, Riverdale, Corktown, Little Italy are all decent sized neighbourhoods close to downtown where the middle class can live in gorgeous surroundings.

As for the MP vs. CityPlace Park stuff -- the more important parks for me are those like Withrow or Riverdale, great kids and dogs parks. And Toronto has lots!

 

[lordmandeep]

Considering the banks are so strong now, I wonder how they will be when the economy comes back.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

???

Considering the banks are so strong now, I wonder how they will be when the economy comes back.

What do you mean? Stronger? or weaker? or relatively up/down?

 

[Second_in_pie]

^^ I think that's a question of how good they'll look once the rest of the world bounces back, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[urbandreamer]

As Jason Collett said tonight at the Junction Arts Festival, here is what Toronto ppl do not do: enjoy themselves, aka dance to good music, on a Saturday night!

 

[OttoSchloss]

It's actually a city that pretty much defies description and for many that's perplexing. I'm not sure the average Torontonians sits around wondering what defines the city except maybe in certain quarters of the media and more so, detractors from elsewhere.

It's a bit like L.A. in that it's a place where everyone can find a bit of home without necessarily needing to belong to the whole.

 

[Whoaccio]

Toronto is like Canada, it defines itself by its search for an identity. That is a bit paradoxical, but it is true. Neither Toronto nor Canada have any obvious "identity" beyond saccharine government sponsored boilerplate (i.e. most diverse city on earth*). That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it can give some people impressions of a city that doesn't really exist.

* I don't really get where this comes from. Yes, Toronto is diverse. There is nothing about Toronto's diversity which would seem noteworthy to, say, an Angelino, Bostonian, Vancouverite, Londoner or any number of any other world cities though. More troublingly, I don't like how this idea is based almost totally on Toronto's large percentage of foreign born residents. It ignores more pertinent, to urban character, factors like degree of cross-cultural communication. By the foreign born metric, Dubai is the most diverse city on earth, I'm sure most people can see why that makes no bloody sense.

 

[jn_12]

I think it's important to remember that Toronto is still a pretty young city and that most of the cities we're comparing it to that have a strong definition like the Parises and Londons of the world didn't come up with their image until the 1800s, in some cases over 500 years after they came into being. London and Paris were vastly different cities pre-1800s and much of what we love about them today didn't exist prior to then. Just look at how much Toronto has changed in the "now and then" thread, and consider that the city we know today is in the process of morphing into something potentially more definable. Or it's simply another stage in the process and Toronto's real definition won't be cemented until long after we've all come and gone. I think we're too young and malleable right now to define ourselves.

The other point I want to make is that a lot of places define themselves in times of trouble and struggle. We've been very lucky in that the hardest times we've gone through wouldn't even register on the map in comparison to a city whose history involved withstanding war and strife.

One thing that I would like to see is the realization that we're the richest city in one of the richest countries in the world. While our quality of living is great, we still have a lot of room for improvement, but we need to stop the sticker shock. I think until the day we realize this, we're going to struggle to reach our potential and define ourselves in the way we want to be defined.

 

[Tewder]

Most cities in North America, however, were formed around the same time (give or take) in the 18th or 19th centuries. Toronto is not 'younger' than Chicago or San Francisco or Vancouver or many other cities that do have a strong sense of history and identity. Toronto *does* have these things but we just don't like them. They're not considered cool or exotic or interesting so we have looked to something new to reinvent ourselves (Multicultural diversity). Toronto is Madonna.

 

[Whoaccio]

I think it's important to remember that Toronto is still a pretty young city and that most of the cities we're comparing it to that have a strong definition like the Parises and Londons of the world didn't come up with their image until the 1800s, in some cases over 500 years after they came into being.

That's true, but I don't know how far I would carry it. We are certainly young by comparison to European cities, and even compared to east coast US cities. At the same time though, we are older than many Asian cities like Hong Kong or Singapore which were basically quaint colonial outposts until after WWII. In some ways, we are almost older than major cities like Tokyo or Seoul which were essentially rebuilt from the ground up over the past half century. Certainly the identity of Tokyo as a super-futuristic megacity filled with concrete and neon has little relationship with the eminently flammable paper and wood shacks that used to characterize it. Even cities like Calgary or Vancouver, much as Torontonians are loathe to admit it, have a much clearer sense of self than we do.

I'm skeptical on the impact of history on these things. From what I've seen, cities identities are based more on a shared feeling of where they are going as opposed to where they have been.

 

[jn_12]

Tewder: Ya Toronto has been around since 1793, incorporated in 1834, but it hasn't been a true city in the same vein as the Chicagos, Bostons, New Yorks and Phillys of North America until maybe WWII. Chicago is the same age but had over 1.5million people in 1900 compared to our 250k. As a city, it has 75-100 years on us. When I say we're young as a city, we're young in the sense that Toronto didn't come into its own until rather late compared to most other North American cities. Maybe Vancouver is an outlier, but their image is and has been largely defined by geography, something that we lack other than the presence of Lake Ontario.