Waterloo Region Transit Developments (ION LRT, new terminal, GRT buses)

[micheal_can]

no phase 2

Why is giving a city better transit and access to more transportation options a waste of money?

 

[innsertnamehere]

Why is giving a city better transit and access to more transportation options a waste of money?

Because it's going to cost $1+ billion and serve probably 5-10,000 trips a day that would be faster and more frequent with an express bus that can use the 401.


Just because it's an improvement doesn't mean it's worth it's cost. $1 billion would go a lot further by implementing more bus infrastructure throughout cambridge, increasing bus frequencies, and implementing some sort of GO service. Prior to the election the liberals were studying a DMU GO service from cambridge to Guelph to connect to the GO mainline. Perhaps that is an option.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

The DMU to Guelph is a half decent option, but I have an even harder time seeing this government fund something entirely new than leaving the (technically in place) phase 2 funding alone. This is one that I hold out a little hope for purely in terms of how much swing there is in the ridings. If I had to guess there's quite a bit of wait and see how the opening goes from the minster; on the one hand they are some time from the funding committment being significant in terms of actual significant expenditure while on the other there is every possibility that either committing to or cancelling the project would go over well in a an election, and which is preferable is going to amount to how the wind blows in terms of Ions perception once it opens.

As far as justifying the project, I really do cringe at cancelling it. The ridership is dubious, but in terms of urban development this is how we guide the region. More importantly, linking Cambridge to the GO line (which, yes, could also be accomplished reasonably well with a DMU) is also what gets around all the issues with extending the Milton line. Ultimately Cambridge is going to demand this project in any case; delaying it serves no one.

 

[rbt]

Because it's going to cost $1+ billion and serve probably 5-10,000 trips a day that would be faster and more frequent with an express bus that can use the 401..

Agreed, with the caveat that having a rough plan in place in order to protect the corridor is still a useful exercise to do now.

In 20 years if ridership increases, then build it.

 

[steveintoronto]

Prior to the election the liberals were studying a DMU GO service from cambridge to Guelph to connect to the GO mainline. Perhaps that is an option.

Gave thumbs up on the post, but your mention of 'DMU to Guelph' is a non-sequitur. I lived in Guelph for five + years up until two years ago, studied the Dillon Consulting Transit Report for Guelph, and know the spur being referred to very well.

It's in terrible shape, and there's not enough density to justify it, let alone what it would cost. What does have to happen, and is years overdue is connecting Guelph Transit to GRT with an express type bus. Or even better, talk of Guelph Transit becoming part of GRT is underway.

Not the best reference I've read, but this illustrates the point:

Greyhound cuts put commuters’ jobs at risk
NEWS Dec 07, 2017 by Chris Seto Waterloo Region Record
[...]
Reached on Wednesday, Guelph Mayor Cam Guthrie said he would eventually like to see municipalities working together to provide a more seamless transportation service throughout the region. Next year during the city's transit service review, Guthrie said he plans on discussing how Guelph Transit could better connect with Kitchener, Fergus, Rockwood, Cambridge and all other surrounding municipalities.

Ridesharing services like Uber and Lyft have disrupted the more traditional modes of transportation, and municipalities need to evolve too, he said.

"We need to start thinking bigger," he said, adding collaboration between municipalities is needed to best move people around.
[...]

https://www.therecord.com/news-story/7984107-greyhound-cuts-put-commuters-jobs-at-risk/

Edit to Add:

[...]
Steve Petric, who sits on the city’s transit advisory committee, says he believes an agency like Superlinx would be too big for its own good.

“The proposal is a bit much. You lose local control with a big group like that,” he says.

“Merging with GRT would make more sense, in my opinion.”

The idea of merging the transit agencies for Guelph and Waterloo Region, or at least having a co-operating relationship is not a new one.

In the Transit Growth Strategy, released in 2010, Dillon Consulting recommended establishing inter-regional transit in the area, saying “a first stage to developing these higher order inter-regional services might involve linking conventional and paratransit services of Guelph Transit and Grand River Transit.” While the report recommended introducing this service in the second year of a five-year plan, it was not done.

Mayoral candidate Jason Blokhuis also pitched the idea during the 2014 municipal election.

Petric says Guelph Transit and its riders would stand to benefit by joining forces with Grand River Transit due to the latter’s size.

“GRT is a bigger organization, they have more resources, whereas Guelph Transit will never have those resources due to the size of our city and transit system,” he says.
[...]

Mayor: Guelph transit users would benefit from larger, inter-regional bus service

 

[muller877]

Agreed, with the caveat that having a rough plan in place in order to protect the corridor is still a useful exercise to do now.

In 20 years if ridership increases, then build it.

Totally agree. You could see the KW King St corridor slowly gain density prior to the LRT announcement. And then (relatively) it exploded in density. Until the province sees that Cambridge is committed to a similar strategy it's not worth it (IMO they aren't). You don't want to see a LRT line go past box stores and strip malls for the foreseeable future.

 

[bgb_ca]

Apparently 511 has achieved PAC

 

[steveintoronto]

This signalling system will make a lot of sense to the K/W crowd as opposed to the Toronto one, at least until a double ended LRT is up and running in TO:

 

[SaugeenJunction]

Waterloo Region has outdone itself. Even Ford would support LRTs after watching this:

 

[robmausser]

The DMU to Guelph is a half decent option, but I have an even harder time seeing this government fund something entirely new than leaving the (technically in place) phase 2 funding alone. This is one that I hold out a little hope for purely in terms of how much swing there is in the ridings. If I had to guess there's quite a bit of wait and see how the opening goes from the minster; on the one hand they are some time from the funding committment being significant in terms of actual significant expenditure while on the other there is every possibility that either committing to or cancelling the project would go over well in a an election, and which is preferable is going to amount to how the wind blows in terms of Ions perception once it opens.

As far as justifying the project, I really do cringe at cancelling it. The ridership is dubious, but in terms of urban development this is how we guide the region. More importantly, linking Cambridge to the GO line (which, yes, could also be accomplished reasonably well with a DMU) is also what gets around all the issues with extending the Milton line. Ultimately Cambridge is going to demand this project in any case; delaying it serves no one.

I actually think after rethinking this that instead of a DMU from Cambridge to Guelph, Metrolinx should have 2 more GO Trains currently terminating at Mount Pleasant continue to Waterloo region but instead go to Cambridge from Guelph.

This way no new railcars need to be purchased, just an extension of 2 existing Kitchener Line trains.

 

[Streety McCarface]

I actually think after rethinking this that instead of a DMU from Cambridge to Guelph, Metrolinx should have 2 more GO Trains currently terminating at Mount Pleasant continue to Waterloo region but instead go to Cambridge from Guelph.

This way no new railcars need to be purchased, just an extension of 2 existing Kitchener Line trains.

I prefer the DMU idea. Cambridge would ideally be better served by an extended Milton line or even an extended Lakeshore west line (no matter how improbable that would be). The DMUs would only really serve a niche market of people traveling to Guelph and Brampton from Cambridge, people would still choose the 24 because it would be 30-50 minutes faster (maybe not as reliable, but definitely faster). Besides, if you extend those two trains to Kitchener instead of Cambridge, those few people that would end up having to take the GO train towards Brampton or Toronto would still have the option to while GO is able to more easily serve Kitchener residents, so service improves for everyone.

 

[micheal_can]

I actually think after rethinking this that instead of a DMU from Cambridge to Guelph, Metrolinx should have 2 more GO Trains currently terminating at Mount Pleasant continue to Waterloo region but instead go to Cambridge from Guelph.

This way no new railcars need to be purchased, just an extension of 2 existing Kitchener Line trains.

How do you get there? They are 2 different rail lines.

 

[steveintoronto]

How do you get there? They are 2 different rail lines.

A very good point! One is clearly do-able, one clearly not. The line to Cambridge from west end of Guelph (south end of the Fergus sub) is in abysmal shape even for 10 mph freight, but the GJR is in very good shape down to Campbellville. The concept is a complete non-starter as a way to get GO trains to Cambridge though.

 

[timio]

There's a spur from Guelph that heads south generally along 124 to Cambridge.

 

[nfitz]

A very good point! One is clearly do-able, one clearly not. The line to Cambridge from west end of Guelph (south end of the Fergus sub) is in abysmal shape even for 10 mph freight, but the GJR is in very good shape down to Campbellville. The concept is a complete non-starter as a way to get GO trains to Cambridge though.

In the short-term perhaps, but in the long term the line from Guelph to Cambridge might be a better option to serving Cambridge - particularly Preston, than extending service on the CP-owned mainline from Milton.

Not sure how well going through Cambellville would work - it's 2 very long sides of a triangle, half-way back to Milton, before joining the CP line.

In terms of short-term service to Cambridge, I'd think that simply extending one or two peak trains that terminate at Milton to Galt would be the solution. While I don't think negotiating a contract with CP for frequent service to Cambridge would be easy - and would require much infrastructure upgrades - I'd be more optimistic that a couple of peak trains to Milton wouldn't be as difficult to negotiate.

Travel time on CP back in 1968 from Cambridge (Galt) to Milton was only 25 minutes. Gosh, only 61 minutes on the express from Union to Galt ... that's about the travel time to Milton these days!