Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

[SaugeenJunction]

Here we go, time for more "studies" and "staff reports".

All talk and no action, typical Toronto politician behavior.

And we wonder why Metrolinx took over most transit building in Toronto....

 

[DSC]

And we wonder why Metrolinx took over most transit building in Toronto....

The TTC needs $$$ from either (or both) the Province and the Feds. Metrolinx can get $$ directly from Doug. While I too sometimes despair at the TTC planning speeds, most of the delays are really due to lack of funds. (OR more accurately, lack of will to raise taxes at City Council so that the City can 'go it alone'). (Of course, the Province makes the City spend a huge sum each year on operating what we have now and that really does need to come first.)

 

[SaugeenJunction]

The TTC needs $$$ from either (or both) the Province and the Feds. Metrolinx can get $$ directly from Doug. While I too sometimes despair at the TTC planning speeds, most of the delays are really due to lack of funds. (OR more accurately, lack of will to raise taxes at City Council so that the City can 'go it alone'). (Of course, the Province makes the City spend a huge sum each year on operating what we have now and that really does need to come first.)

After getting $28.5 billion in free subways from Doug, Toronto Council should act like a mature level of government and just raise taxes to pay for this. Obviously Provincial and Federal support would be ideal, but if the cash isn’t coming, Toronto needs to step up and get it done.

 

[Amare]

In fairness, there was no request for studies when you look at the actual motion wording:

View attachment 407716

I find it funny they're looking for ways to "expedite" the process now because a couple years ago they had no problem stalling the process and dragging their feet. Ironically they could have "expedited things" and secured more PTIF funding for the project if they didnt conduct stupidity:

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2018/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-110749.pdf

From the link above:

 

[Northern Light]

And we wonder why Metrolinx took over most transit building in Toronto....

What an odd comment.

Mx actually spends far more time on studies not required by law than does the TTC.

 

[Northern Light]

After getting $28.5 billion in free subways from Doug, Toronto Council should act like a mature level of government and just raise taxes to pay for this. Obviously Provincial and Federal support would be ideal, but if the cash isn’t coming, Toronto needs to step up and get it done.

While I agree that Toronto should raise property tax, I don't agree they should use that to expand transit; that money is needed for capital and operating needs for parks, long-term care, shelters, housing, culture, recreation, libraries, cycling, public realm/streetscapes and more.

Transit should be funded via road tolls, which the City agreed to do, passing it, only to have it vetoed by the province.

 

[TossYourJacket]

After getting $28.5 billion in free subways from Doug, Toronto Council should act like a mature level of government and just raise taxes to pay for this. Obviously Provincial and Federal support would be ideal, but if the cash isn’t coming, Toronto needs to step up and get it done.

If Doug wants Toronto to spend more of it's own money then he should allow the city to put tolls on the DVP/Gardiner. But he will never do that as it would upset the 905. The same reason Wynne blocked the tolls.

 

[ARG1]

If Doug wants Toronto to spend more of it's own money then he should allow the city to put tolls on the DVP/Gardiner. But he will never do that as it would upset the 905. The same reason Wynne blocked the tolls.

There are so many other ways Toronto can generate more revenue that doesn't involve tolling the DVP/Gardiner.

 

[Northern Light]

There are so many other ways Toronto can generate more revenue that doesn't involve tolling the DVP/Gardiner.

Such as?

The vehicle registration tax is a political non-starter.

The only other large revenue generation tool the City legally has as its disposal, that I'm aware of, is a parking tax.

I'd be happy to support that, but it is a tad cumbersome (you need to list all the addresses of commercial parking, then the number of spaces etc etc.)...

Tolls would certainly be more efficient and less costly to administer.

 

[innsertnamehere]

tolls are incredibly expensive to administer.

The simplest way for the City to raise revenue is property taxes, full stop. Toronto could jack property taxes by 30% tomorrow and still be below most GTA municipalities.

 

[DSC]

News Release

June 15, 2022

Toronto City Council votes to advance Eglinton East LRT and Waterfront East LRT

Today, Toronto City Council unanimously voted in support of advancing work on the Eglinton East Light Rail Transit (LRT) and the Waterfront East LRT.

The Eglinton East LRT is a planned, 15-kilometre LRT running from Kennedy Station through the University of Toronto Scarborough (UTSC) to Malvern, with up to 21 stops and connections to GO Transit. The new line will provide transit access to historically underserved communities, travel through or adjacent to seven Neighbourhood Improvement Areas and bring higher-order transit within walking distance of 49,000 Torontonians.

Council has directed staff to advance the Transit Project Assessment Process and 10 per cent design for a distinct service concept with an at-grade connection at Kennedy Station. A distinct service concept will provide an estimated $2.1 billion in cost savings, reduce construction by up to four years, reduce property impacts for 21 properties on Eglinton Avenue West, and provide design and operational flexibility, allowing for more frequent service as needed.

City of Toronto staff will continue to refine the design of an at-grade Kennedy Station connection, with the goal of enhancing the transit customer experience. Following further work on the distinct service concept, staff will report back in Q3 2023 with a Class 4 cost estimate and updated initial business case.

The City, TTC and Waterfront Toronto are designing the Waterfront East LRT, which will provide rapid transit service to the East Bayfront area along Queens Quay, from Bay Street to Cherry Street, connecting north to the Distillery District and south to Commissioners Road. The line will provide improved transit to areas of significant existing and future development.

Since December 2020, the design of the Waterfront East LRT has been advanced to close to 30 per cent. Council has directed staff to finalize the 30 per cent design, and conduct an assessment of constructability and coordination with other major infrastructure projects in the area. The results of this work will be reported in Q2 2023, along with a recommended scope, updated cost estimate, and a funding, financing and implementation strategy for the project.

Quote:

“We're seeing unprecedented transit expansion in our city. These two LRT projects are just as important as the other major transit projects already under construction. For the first time in our city's history, we have a more than $28 billion transit plan approved and funded by all three governments – the Government of Canada, the Government of Ontario, and the City of Toronto. I am just as determined to get both the Eglinton East LRT and Waterfront East LRT built because I know they will make a meaningful difference for everyone travelling in these areas.”

– Mayor John Tory

 

[Northern Light]

tolls are incredibly expensive to administer.

Much less expensive than a Parking Tax; and quite straight-forward using the same tech as #407 and likely just paying them to implement it in exchange for a cut.

The simplest way for the City to raise revenue is property taxes, full stop. Toronto could jack property taxes by 30% tomorrow and still be below most GTA municipalities.

Not really. I agree there's room for a material increase, but that statement is misleading.

It refers only to the single-family residential property tax rate; where yes, we could in fact execute a 30% hike.............

But lets' have a closer look at what that looks like......

Total Property Tax revenue is ~ 5B

But roughly 1/2 of that is the Commercial rate which is frozen by provincial statute, as is multi-family.

So you're not raising 30% of 5B; you're raising 30% of well less than 1/2 that number.

Its a lot of money, don't get me wrong; and we should do it.

But stabilizing the backlog of repairs in Parks, Forestry and Recreation alone is a 9-figure number, per year.

Want to reduce the TTC fare multiple for passes to something more sensible, that's a good 200M per year.

Want Recreation Centres open in the evening on weekends? Add 30M per year.

Want TTC Subways running at 7am on Sundays - 25M per year

Want Platform Edge Doors in Subway Stations? Add 100M per year and they'll be done in 15 years.

I'm not sure you'll find much left in the piggy bank for EELRT.

 

[ViewfromtheLake]

tolls are incredibly expensive to administer.

The simplest way for the City to raise revenue is property taxes, full stop. Toronto could jack property taxes by 30% tomorrow and still be below most GTA municipalities.

Raising property taxes should just be done - but not for roads. You are penalizing many Torontonians, while I, a non-resident, but constant work related user of Toronto roads and transit enjoys the ride. Property tax revenues should be directed, as Northern Light has pointed out, to a lengthy list of other city needs.

Toll the Gardiner, the DVP, the 401, the 427 - and allocate those funds to Transit Developement within the City of Toronto. Why do I pay a hefty ’toll’ for the use of the TTC or the GO but zippo for my vehicle? (And vehicle running expenses are not part of this equation) Exempt through truckers, easy to do, and scale the tolls for time of day. Who knows, tolling may actually encourage further transit usage.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Raising property taxes should just be done - but not for roads. You are penalizing many Torontonians, while I, a non-resident, but constant work related user of Toronto roads and transit enjoys the ride. Property tax revenues should be directed, as Northern Light has pointed out, to a lengthy list of other city needs.

Toll the Gardiner, the DVP, the 401, the 427 - and allocate those funds to Transit Developement within the City of Toronto. Why do I pay a hefty ’toll’ for the use of the TTC or the GO but zippo for my vehicle? (And vehicle running expenses are not part of this equation) Exempt through truckers, easy to do, and scale the tolls for time of day. Who knows, tolling may actually encourage further transit usage.

You do pay for the 427 and 401 as a non-resident as those are provincial roads

I agree it's unfair - I would argue that the DVP and Gardiner should be provincial highways (as well as most of the other municipal expressways in Ontario for that matter).

I don't think tolling of the Gardiner or DVP is a bad idea, in fact I think it's a fairly decent idea, but it's simply not a particularly efficient revenue tool. To me tolls would be used more to encourage certain behaviors than to raise revenues. I was very supportive of the Tory era toll proposals in fact, particularly for tolls going into downtown (i.e. east of Park Lawn and south of Don Mills).

A downtown Congestion charge would be the best solution in terms ob behaviour modification, but that would actually be even more expensive than highway tolls to implement.

 

[generalcanada]

oh look someone mentioned the waterfront west....take a good look you wont see another mention of this for a long time LOL

https://twitter.com/x/status/1537105842239045633