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Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

How should Toronto connect the East and West arms of the planned waterfront transit with downtown?

  • Expand the existing Union loop

    Votes: 162 73.3%
  • Build a Western terminus

    Votes: 9 4.1%
  • Route service along Queen's Quay with pedestrian/cycle/bus connection to Union

    Votes: 23 10.4%
  • Connect using existing Queen's Quay/Union Loop and via King Street

    Votes: 12 5.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 15 6.8%

  • Total voters
    221

turini2

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Two of the four bridges have already arrived.
I was under the impression that the 4 bridges are - 2 Cherry St North bridges (road + transit), 1 Commissioners Street (road) and 1 Cherry St South. You can see the 'gap' where the transit bridge should go! Here's the last Waterfront DRP on them.

So they will need to order another Cherry Street South bridge if they want a Polson Loop! (And another one at Commissioners, eventually)

Map from here
port+lands+2024+map+(003).png
 
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AlvinofDiaspar

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I was under the impression that the 4 bridges are - 2 Cherry St North bridges (road + transit), 1 Commissioners Street (road) and 1 Cherry St South. You can see the 'gap' where the transit bridge should go! Here's the last Waterfront DRP on them.

So they will need to order another Cherry Street South bridge if they want a Polson Loop! (And another one at Commissioners, eventually)

Map from here
View attachment 330007

That's correct - the south Cherry LRT bridge needed for the Polson loop isn't a deliverable under the ongoing Lower Don project.

AoD
 

max

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Will it fit under the existing Cherry Street South bridge to be hoisted up on the east side?
Unless I'm missing something, Cherry Street South has yet to arrive. We've only got the Cherry Street North transit bridge & one span of the Commissioners Street vehicle bridge. According to this video from WT:
the second span of the Commissioners Street vehicle bridge is next, then the Cherry Street South vehicle bridge at the end of this year.

One hopes the order can be modified so that then Cherry Street South transit bridge arrives first, but I expect that metaphorical ship to have sailed.
 

allengeorge

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Unless I'm missing something, Cherry Street South has yet to arrive.
I believe the slides stated that going with the Polson Loop would require an additional LRT bridge order. I’m…honestly not sure what’s involved. Was the bridge designed but never funded? Does it have to be designed?

EDIT: @turini2 mentioned this earlier:

 

DSC

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Why Polson? Why not build a loop at Cherry beach, an actual destination?
Because that means another bridge over the ship channel and that one would either need to be very tall or liftable and very expensive. One day, maybe, but if one is going to Cherry Beach for exercise maybe taking a streetcar to Polson Loop and walking the remaining 300-400 metres would not be asking too much?
 

nfitz

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Because that means another bridge over the ship channel and that one would either need to be very tall or liftable and very expensive.
Which does raise the question, of why not build a loop - perhaps even a temporary one, at Cherry and Commissioners, instead of at Poulson, that requires another bridge.
 

W. K. Lis

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Why loops? If we're getting 60 additional streetcars, make them dual-ended cars. Use crossovers at the ends, which can be extended as needed, without loops. Could even use center-platforms. Can even use temporary crossovers for construction or emergency situations...



Bombardier Flexity Outlook - Marseille
lg-bom-flexityoutlook-marseille.gif

Bombardier Flexity Outlook - Strasbourg

lg-bom-flexityoutlook-strasbourg.gif

From link.
 
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ARG1

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Which does raise the question, of why not build a loop - perhaps even a temporary one, at Cherry and Commissioners, instead of at Poulson, that requires another bridge.
Ideally we try to push for as much expansion as possible before the development hits, the last thing we want is for the developments to spring up before we start building parts of the extension, and all of a sudden there's a bunch of NIMBYs that don't want streetcars on their doorstep. If Toronto wants to build out the Poison first, let's build out to Poison first, that way we have more guaranteed streetcar tracks that will be available at the end of the day.
 

DSC

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Ideally we try to push for as much expansion as possible before the development hits, the last thing we want is for the developments to spring up before we start building parts of the extension, and all of a sudden there's a bunch of NIMBYs that don't want streetcars on their doorstep. If Toronto wants to build out the Poison first, let's build out to Poison first, that way we have more guaranteed streetcar tracks that will be available at the end of the day.
I agree 100% but the ONLY reason to build a loop west/north of Polson would be IF the bridge over the new Don would hold up opening the east-west line. Then I would support a TEMPORARY loop closer to Cherry/Parliament. Many places build temporary on-grade tracks while doing repairs so I am thinking of something like that. Until there is a loop of some kind east of Bay, the QQ line cannot operate after the Union loop is closed for expansion.
 

drum118

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Which does raise the question, of why not build a loop - perhaps even a temporary one, at Cherry and Commissioners, instead of at Poulson, that requires another bridge.
The plan earlier this year was to have a loop as noted by you, but with all the land being raise about 5', you would have to wait until the land was raised and compacted.

To deal with all the issues with the missing LRT bridges is to delay the opening of the new river and park land. This means about 2-3 years delay as well finding the money to do it.

If we had duel end cars, no needs for a loop and time to start looking at doing this, especially for the waterfront.
 

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