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Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

How should Toronto connect the East and West arms of the planned waterfront transit with downtown?

  • Expand the existing Union loop

    Votes: 205 71.2%

  • Build a Western terminus

    Votes: 13 4.5%

  • Route service along Queen's Quay with pedestrian/cycle/bus connection to Union

    Votes: 31 10.8%

  • Connect using existing Queen's Quay/Union Loop and via King Street

    Votes: 22 7.6%

  • Other

    Votes: 17 5.9%
  • Total voters
    288
nfitz said:
But isn't there a pedestrian crossing now - or have they gotten rid of it in the last year? It doesn't show blue across at the south(!) end of the current station.

But yeah, seems there won't be in the future?



Indeed. But for some reason, I thought it had vanished in the previous iteration. Maybe this is just more detailed.
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The crossing is still there and will be there until the station is rebuilt.

The Bremner connection to Union has been in all plans to date, but the lines may have be light to caused the thinking the line was removed. It been there since 2008 in plan detail, but been around longer than that in talking stage as well before my time.
turini2 said:
Glad to see they're pushing forward with the idea of building the cheap(er) and faster bit first - Queens Quay East and then embarking on the long reconstruction of Queens Quay + Union stations. Hopefully money is found/there's the will to connect to Cherry St as part of Phase 1.

Once the expensive portal is done, it improves the financial business case for further extensions to the Portlands/Broadview/East Harbour/Leslie Barns! If a comprehensive TPAP is done, I wonder if the TTC/City could fund x metres of new streetcar trackage a year and get the network built!

(Also, I wonder if the sidewalks from Union to the Waterfront could be heated/weather protected to make the walk from Union south a little easier during construction)
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Around 2022-2025, the trackwork on QQW in the Bathurst St area that doesn't match the current rebuilt section has to be replace. At that time, QQ would be rebuilt to match the existing and the possibility of shifting the Bathurst tracks to the west from QQ to Fort York Blvd as well rebuilt the Fleet intersection. An EA will have to take place for that change. The QQ trackwork is in TTC budget, but not Bathurst or Fleet. Not sure where funding is for Waterfront Toronto work is at this time for QQ and Bathurst is not in their budget as well.

QQE extension from Bay to Parliament has to be built at the same time to a point, with the portal happening after most of the surface area under Waterfront control is nearing completion. This includes the infilling of the Yonge Slip. Bay to Yonge will only have one lane in service with the other lane on detour. It also needs to go hand in hand with the building of 11 Bay tower wit a current start date of 2022, but can't see that happening at this time. More like 2023/2024. Infilling the Yonge Slip as well the new entrance to the hotel and Yonge St has to be in operation first before work starts on the portal.

TTC and the city will not fund X metres of track/road yearly to complete the network as its too costly and to hard to do as well being very disruption to everyone. 2B would stand on its own as it own extension or become part of the current plan once cost, timetable is known as well how it will be funded.

The timetable is late 2024 for the new Cherry St to open and TTC is in no rush to build tracks into the Portland area as well taking the Commissioner Line to the Leslie Barns to allow the looping of the line to take place there when there will be no buildings until 2026+ other than what is east of the Don Way to support streetcar service regardless if Transit is to be number one from day one.. Even if TTC wanted to do that now, it will happen years after the new rebuilt streets are open due to lack of funding and what is to happen for the underpass.

There is no EA in place or Broadview at this time with the main focuses on it to East Harbour first and then to Commissioners. Again, funding is an issue like all things pertaining to transit with the road being built first and leaving provision for future transit that will be built at a later date.

Metrolinx got to have its say for the underpass as it will effect service one way or another as well the cost to do it

Have not heard about heated north-south sidewalks and doing QQ sidewalks is not a done deal at this time. Greening N-S roads been in the works a long time and about to happen over the next few years.
 
nfitz said:
Waterfront east of Bay was always a city project (with Waterfront Toronto, who are still involved).

Much of the excess traffic on Queen, east of Woodbine, are travellers from far away in Scarborough, cutting through on streets like Victoria Park. Queens Quay East doesn't fix that. The solution there is putting in restrictions that cuts down on those in Scarborough getting down to Queen East, east of Woodbine.

Queen East doesn't really go anywhere major past Woodbine. There's no reason for it being more congested than Gerrard!

(not that I oppose extending it east of Leslie. I'd love to see it continue along the Commissioners alignment, between Leslie Barns and the treatment plan, and then north to Lakeshore Blvd, and east along Lakeshore up to Woodbine. Connecting track on Coxwell wouldn't hurt either.)
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I thought I had seen a Metrolinx study on the Waterfront LRT, it must have been City of Toronto. Can't depend on that ol memory.

My reason for desiring that transit connection is that the transit connection to that area is pretty slow and streetcar runs super slow east of woodbine. I think it'd be easier to hop onto a Waterfront LRT route that takes me to the edge of the Beaches area. Getting in and out for local residents for commutes would also be much easier. It was ruled out during route options when it was studied. I thought it would have been an obvious choice.
 
TorPronto said:
My reason for desiring that transit connection is that the transit connection to that area is pretty slow and streetcar runs super slow east of woodbine. I think it'd be easier to hop onto a Waterfront LRT route that takes me to the edge of the Beaches area. Getting in and out for local residents for commutes would also be much easier. It was ruled out during route options when it was studied. I thought it would have been an obvious choice.
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I'm not so sure it was ruled out, but they've moved to focus this on the more forseeable future. Ending the line at Broadview can happen in a reasonable timeframe. They are no where near advanced yet on the designs for Commissioner street west of Broadview ... so it would be 2040s ... so why muddy the waters talking about the piece even further out? It could well happen in the original timeframe.

I can see how it's quicker to get to Queen/Woodbine (though for me, working south of King, it would still be still quicker to take 501 or 503 rather than go down to Queens Quay). But I don't see that this does much for Queen East, east of Woodbine.

We don't have to wait 20+ years though. Queen transit corridor downtown like King. Restrictions to traffic getting to Queen Street. Not much cost at all.
 
nfitz said:
I'm not so sure it was ruled out, but they've moved to focus this on the more forseeable future. Ending the line at Broadview can happen in a reasonable timeframe. They are no where near advanced yet on the designs for Commissioner street west of Broadview ... so it would be 2040s ... so why muddy the waters talking about the piece even further out? It could well happen in the original timeframe.

I can see how it's quicker to get to Queen/Woodbine (though for me, working south of King, it would still be still quicker to take 501 or 503 rather than go down to Queens Quay). But I don't see that this does much for Queen East, east of Woodbine.

We don't have to wait 20+ years though. Queen transit corridor downtown like King. Restrictions to traffic getting to Queen Street. Not much cost at all.
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To Queen/Woodbine was one of the options but their analysis showed there would not be much ridership so it was cut out.
 
TorPronto said:
I thought I had seen a Metrolinx study on the Waterfront LRT, it must have been City of Toronto. Can't depend on that ol memory.

My reason for desiring that transit connection is that the transit connection to that area is pretty slow and streetcar runs super slow east of woodbine. I think it'd be easier to hop onto a Waterfront LRT route that takes me to the edge of the Beaches area. Getting in and out for local residents for commutes would also be much easier. It was ruled out during route options when it was studied. I thought it would have been an obvious choice.
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The Master Transit Plan back in 2006 saw an LRT line on the Lake Shore Blvd connecting to Queen and Kingston Rd intersection. This was approved by TTC board and City Council and sent to the government for final approval.

Unknown to everyone involved in this Master Plan process including me were floor in 2008 when we learn that TTC removed the Lake Shore Line from the Plan when the province requested the Master Plan to be broken down into 3 plans in place of one. TTC also made a few other changes as well.

Then the City a few years later removed a few lines as the time line was too far out and beyond the 2050 life cycle.
 
TorPronto said:
To Queen/Woodbine was one of the options but their analysis showed there would not be much ridership so it was cut out.
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Oh, I missed the analysis. Where was that?

And was that in 2046 ... or soon. Because ... yeah, hard to justify until Portlands is closer to being finished.
 
Here's another sad blast from the past. Note the date. This was a couple of years before the release of a till-then-hidden study which stated that the Scarborough RT would fail by 2015 and it should be upgraded to expand its capacity by then to meet future demand for about $360 Million. This was a few years before Ottawa even conceived the Confederation Line.
1612580795275.png
 
I can't wait to see Villiers Island get developed and to see the Cherry Street and QQEast LRTs take shape. I can tell that with the planned park at the foot of Leslie St. at the lake and past discussions about transforming The Hearn plant into some kind of Tate Modern branch of the AGO, as well as the restoration of the mouth of the Don and the opening up of development along the Keating Channel as the Gardner is shifted (Hybrid), the Port Lands will become an exciting part of the city. Making it accessible by connecting it to the East Harbour station, Harbourfront, and the Distillery District through light rail is important.
 
CapitalSeven said:
Here's another sad blast from the past. Note the date. This was a couple of years before the release of a till-then-hidden study which stated that the Scarborough RT would fail by 2015 and it should be upgraded to expand its capacity by then to meet future demand for about $360 Million. This was a few years before Ottawa even conceived the Confederation Line.
View attachment 298527
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That was and still is Waterfront Toronto position since 2004. Even Mayor Dave Millar wanted to see Transit to be First for the waterfront.

Transit First has been pushed by me and others since 2010 to the point the City of Toronto has stated now it is time to do so, but only talk so far since council calls the shots for funding.

If Transit City remain as is after Ford became Mayor, the SRT would have been replace now with the last of the cars showing up late 2020 since they would be coming out of either Thunder Bay or Kingston. The last of the existing old fleet may have been retired a year later than they did or about to since BBD would have to supply cars to TTC 2 streetcar network. Hate to think where TTC would be at today if the Sheppard LRT had gone into service in 2014 as plan, 2018 for the SRT and 2020 for replacing the existing fleet.
 
The heated sidewalk only surface at Dec meeting and no location was given for testing. The slide shows the heating only at stops locations, but is to be look for the whole corridor. Cost will be the driving force as to how much gets heating as well if it will happen at all for stops.

Look what is required for GO platforms and where/how will the mechanical buildings be place on the street to do the full or part sidewalk???
 
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