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Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

How should Toronto connect the East and West arms of the planned waterfront transit with downtown?

  • Expand the existing Union loop

    Votes: 153 73.6%
  • Build a Western terminus

    Votes: 8 3.8%
  • Route service along Queen's Quay with pedestrian/cycle/bus connection to Union

    Votes: 23 11.1%
  • Connect using existing Queen's Quay/Union Loop and via King Street

    Votes: 10 4.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 14 6.7%

  • Total voters
    208

allengeorge

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So how do they manage that many services with just 11 platforms
So, the subways and PATH obviously don't share platforms with the rest of the services. They have 11 platforms, but can take 22 trains. I don''t know the answer to your the question, sorry.
 

allengeorge

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Oh, and something else to say about location: Penn is great for regional travel, while Grand Central is great for Midtown and a lot of the bank towers (i.e. much of NYC's business district) - and for traveling upstate (or near upstate: places like Westchester, etc.) In NYC you don't quite have the equivalent to a station like Union which is great for CBD access, regional travel, inter-major-city-travel and for suburban travel simultaneously. At least, that's my opinion.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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Oh, and something else to say about location: Penn is great for regional travel, while Grand Central is great for Midtown and a lot of the bank towers (i.e. much of NYC's business district) - and for traveling upstate (or near upstate: places like Westchester, etc.) In NYC you don't quite have the equivalent to a station like Union which is great for CBD access, regional travel and for suburban travel simultaneously. At least, that's my opinion.

If only we can eventually have HSR in an underground platform deep underneath the existing Union :) Gut the awful Via Concourse and open up the mall immediately below into an access atrium down to the HSR platform/concourse... I can dream indeed.

AoD
 

Northern Light

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...... but I haven't seen most of the other stations in North America. so I can't say for sure. Although the platform level at Union is really bad.

How about other large old stations? How do they compare with Union in architecture and track/platform level?

Grand Central is gorgeous in the station house...............but............the platform level............:

1607743796083.png


Penn Station's Platforms:

1607743888805.png


Chicago Union Station Platform:
1607744165614.png

 

allengeorge

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Grand Central is gorgeous in the station house...............but............the platform level............:
Yeah. Grand Central's platform level is dingy, as is Penn's. They may be redoing all the platforms soon? Penn is undergoing major rework as we speak. The last time I was there the LIRR area upstairs was completely redone, and they're going through section by section.

I did find Go's platforms particularly claustrophic however, and I don't know why. The platforms at Penn can't be that much wider, can they?
 

Deadpool X

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Grand Central is gorgeous in the station house...............but............the platform level............:

View attachment 288320

Penn Station's Platforms:

View attachment 288321

Chicago Union Station Platform:
View attachment 288322
That made me throw up a little. They don't look much different from a typical dilapidated NYC subway station.
 

Northern Light

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That made me throw up a little. They don't look much different from a typical dilapidated NYC subway station.

If it makes you feel any better, the Chicago Union Station main building/headhouse looks like this:

1607745108424.png


1607745152555.png

 

allengeorge

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I will say this: American public works have a sense of grandeur that's completely missing from Canadian public buildings. You really do feel a sense of awe. I mean, (speaking of something built recently) the Occulus is kinda mind-blowing when you're inside.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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I will say this: American public works have a sense of grandeur that's completely missing from Canadian public buildings. You really do feel a sense of awe. I mean, (speaking of something built recently) the Occulus is kinda mind-blowing when you're inside.

You'd be raked through the coals if you propose to build something like the Oculus here -on the basis of cost alone - and it may be the right thing to do in this case. Context (ie. 9/11) aside, spending this much on a trophy piece when there are so many structural issues with NYC transit (yes, different pots of money, but still) is kind of abhorrent.

AoD
 
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Northern Light

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I will say this: American public works have a sense of grandeur that's completely missing from Canadian public buildings. You really do feel a sense of awe. I mean, (speaking of something built recently) the Occulus is kinda mind-blowing when you're inside.

Some do.

Its important to consider context.

Union Station L.A. is quite nice, but I wouldn't say its more grand than Toronto Union:

1607745936324.png



When Looking at Chicago's Union Station; lets consider that when it was built, in 1925, Chicago was ~2,800,000 people.

Toronto in the same period was ~600,000 (400'ish in 1921, 800'ish in '31) as per the census.

NYC by comparison was over 6M, or more than 10x the size!
 

allengeorge

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You'd be raked through the coals if you propose to build something like the Oculus here -on the basis of cost alone - and it may be the right thing to do in this case.
As I should be. There is a tension between value for dollar and awe-inspiring. If I had to spend $4 billion I'd rather spend it on the waterfront LRT or the EELRT. That said...people absolutely do visit NYC to see Grand Central; sometimes it's nice to have something incredible to remind us of where we can reach, and what we can achieve.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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As I should be. There is a tension between value for dollar and awe-inspiring. If I had to spend $4 billion I'd rather spend it on the waterfront LRT or the EELRT. That said...people absolutely do visit NYC to see Grand Central; sometimes it's nice to have something incredible to remind us of where we can reach, and what we can achieve.

It's a good thought exercise that speaks to our values as a people (and as a democratic middle power) I suppose. I am a sucker for awe-inspiring architecture and public works, but something like this - even if I want it - would have trouble passing my own conscience as a citizen.

AoD
 

W. K. Lis

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Side note, this is a link to a list of the busiest train stations in North America.

Note the names, note the volumes and the number of platforms.


Note too that places like Newark and Hoboken are "suburbs" of New York City.

While Toronto has only one today, who knows about in the next century? We could have busy train stations at Casa Loma or Don Mills, or even the Pearson Transit Hub could become one?


From link.
 

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