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Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

How should Toronto connect the East and West arms of the planned waterfront transit with downtown?

  • Expand the existing Union loop

    Votes: 199 73.2%
  • Build a Western terminus

    Votes: 10 3.7%
  • Route service along Queen's Quay with pedestrian/cycle/bus connection to Union

    Votes: 28 10.3%
  • Connect using existing Queen's Quay/Union Loop and via King Street

    Votes: 19 7.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 16 5.9%

  • Total voters
    272
He/she was hoping that Union becomes one of the greatest station. Being busy is not comparable to being great. Penn is the busiest one but looks mediocre at best.
I didn't interpret that way. I simply read it as "it's a busy station". And it's true: Union is very busy - I didn't realize how busy until I looked up the stats. It's in a great location, is connected to both regional rail and the subway, and has a direct connection to the airport. Doesn't have anywhere near the grandeur of Grand Central though (or many European terminals). What NYC does have over Toronto is 4 heavily-used terminals to Toronto's 1: Penn, Grand Central, Jamaica, Atlantic.
 
So how do they manage that many services with just 11 platforms
So, the subways and PATH obviously don't share platforms with the rest of the services. They have 11 platforms, but can take 22 trains. I don''t know the answer to your the question, sorry.
 
Oh, and something else to say about location: Penn is great for regional travel, while Grand Central is great for Midtown and a lot of the bank towers (i.e. much of NYC's business district) - and for traveling upstate (or near upstate: places like Westchester, etc.) In NYC you don't quite have the equivalent to a station like Union which is great for CBD access, regional travel, inter-major-city-travel and for suburban travel simultaneously. At least, that's my opinion.
 
Oh, and something else to say about location: Penn is great for regional travel, while Grand Central is great for Midtown and a lot of the bank towers (i.e. much of NYC's business district) - and for traveling upstate (or near upstate: places like Westchester, etc.) In NYC you don't quite have the equivalent to a station like Union which is great for CBD access, regional travel and for suburban travel simultaneously. At least, that's my opinion.

If only we can eventually have HSR in an underground platform deep underneath the existing Union :) Gut the awful Via Concourse and open up the mall immediately below into an access atrium down to the HSR platform/concourse... I can dream indeed.

AoD
 
...... but I haven't seen most of the other stations in North America. so I can't say for sure. Although the platform level at Union is really bad.

How about other large old stations? How do they compare with Union in architecture and track/platform level?

Grand Central is gorgeous in the station house...............but............the platform level............:

1607743796083.png


Penn Station's Platforms:

1607743888805.png


Chicago Union Station Platform:
1607744165614.png

 
Grand Central is gorgeous in the station house...............but............the platform level............:
Yeah. Grand Central's platform level is dingy, as is Penn's. They may be redoing all the platforms soon? Penn is undergoing major rework as we speak. The last time I was there the LIRR area upstairs was completely redone, and they're going through section by section.

I did find Go's platforms particularly claustrophic however, and I don't know why. The platforms at Penn can't be that much wider, can they?
 
Grand Central is gorgeous in the station house...............but............the platform level............:

View attachment 288320

Penn Station's Platforms:

View attachment 288321

Chicago Union Station Platform:
View attachment 288322
That made me throw up a little. They don't look much different from a typical dilapidated NYC subway station.
 
That made me throw up a little. They don't look much different from a typical dilapidated NYC subway station.

If it makes you feel any better, the Chicago Union Station main building/headhouse looks like this:

1607745108424.png


1607745152555.png

 
I will say this: American public works have a sense of grandeur that's completely missing from Canadian public buildings. You really do feel a sense of awe. I mean, (speaking of something built recently) the Occulus is kinda mind-blowing when you're inside.
 
I will say this: American public works have a sense of grandeur that's completely missing from Canadian public buildings. You really do feel a sense of awe. I mean, (speaking of something built recently) the Occulus is kinda mind-blowing when you're inside.

You'd be raked through the coals if you propose to build something like the Oculus here -on the basis of cost alone - and it may be the right thing to do in this case. Context (ie. 9/11) aside, spending this much on a trophy piece when there are so many structural issues with NYC transit (yes, different pots of money, but still) is kind of abhorrent.

AoD
 
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I will say this: American public works have a sense of grandeur that's completely missing from Canadian public buildings. You really do feel a sense of awe. I mean, (speaking of something built recently) the Occulus is kinda mind-blowing when you're inside.

Some do.

Its important to consider context.

Union Station L.A. is quite nice, but I wouldn't say its more grand than Toronto Union:

1607745936324.png



When Looking at Chicago's Union Station; lets consider that when it was built, in 1925, Chicago was ~2,800,000 people.

Toronto in the same period was ~600,000 (400'ish in 1921, 800'ish in '31) as per the census.

NYC by comparison was over 6M, or more than 10x the size!
 
You'd be raked through the coals if you propose to build something like the Oculus here -on the basis of cost alone - and it may be the right thing to do in this case.
As I should be. There is a tension between value for dollar and awe-inspiring. If I had to spend $4 billion I'd rather spend it on the waterfront LRT or the EELRT. That said...people absolutely do visit NYC to see Grand Central; sometimes it's nice to have something incredible to remind us of where we can reach, and what we can achieve.
 

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