Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

[drum118]

That's exactly why Waterfront Toronto used to have the mandate "Transit First" and why they started transit planning for Queens Quay East about a decade ago. Then they and the City took their eyes off the ball and started approving developments based on vague promises to get the LRT built. Now we are looking at a choice of a rather experimental 'sideways cable-car', a moving sidewalk in a damp tunnel or simply a walk along the same tunnel. Sad!

Waterfront Toronto has since 2004 manta "Transit First" even today, but the city and TTC are the killer of the QQE line since 2008. Back in 2008, TTC wanted $275 Million for Union expansion that Waterfront Toronto didn't have. Today its close to $450 million.

The option proposed today were rejected in 2006-08 and not really supported by Waterfront Toronto even today. They want the QQE line yesterday and willing to give up on Union to get it now.

It been a given that the film industry will only last as long as there is a demand for it and that land will become more density over time as it down grade itself. There has always been a plan to have high employment in this whole area, but what will it be is unknown until time comes to build something based on current technology at that time. Big Box are not welcome in this area.

The whole Portland development was a 50 year plan with hope it could happen sooner if there was money for it. Unless some developers are prepare to do the soil upgrade on their dime, you wouldn't see new development until 2025 plus or when the mouth of the Don is built. The Cherry St Line is 2025-30 at this time.

Back to the Film industries, there is talk about building a city development that will be use as a film site and everyone living in the building must sign agreement that they will be subject to filming at all hours as well being in a shot.

The density for the whole waterfront including the Portland is 6 time higher than originally proposed back in 2004. Its also why the QQE will be 2 to 3 time higher for ridership over the QQW. It been stated that ridership could be 5,000 at peak time for Union, but I see it close to 10,000 once everything is built, if not more. Union will never handle those number under the 3 options.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

The density for the whole waterfront including the Portland is 6 time higher than originally proposed back in 2004. Its also why the QQE will be 2 to 3 time higher for ridership over the QQW. It been stated that ridership could be 5,000 at peak time for Union, but I see it close to 10,000 once everything is built, if not more. Union will never handle those number under the 3 options.

This is going to hit us hard in the future, especially with GO-RER dumping in that many more people into Union Station at peak hour.

 

[Rainforest]

The density for the whole waterfront including the Portland is 6 time higher than originally proposed back in 2004. Its also why the QQE will be 2 to 3 time higher for ridership over the QQW. It been stated that ridership could be 5,000 at peak time for Union, but I see it close to 10,000 once everything is built, if not more. Union will never handle those number under the 3 options.

Wow, if those 10,000 materialize, would any option be able to handle them? Short of dedicated subway line connecting the eastern waterfront to downtown, and not just to Union ...

In the absence of the dedicated line, and amid slow progress on Waterfront East LRT, is it even wise to permit the kind of density that would lead to such level of transportation demand?

 

[Leo_Chan]

Wow, if those 10,000 materialize, would any option be able to handle them? Short of dedicated subway line connecting the eastern waterfront to downtown, and not just to Union ...

In the absence of the dedicated line, and amid slow progress on Waterfront East LRT, is it even wise to permit the kind of density that would lead to such level of transportation demand?

Option 1 is definitely needed for the ridership. Including a Cherry St LRT to Sumach Station (Relief Line) with an underground platform may be one way to help with this.

 

[Rainforest]

Option 1 is definitely needed for the ridership. Including a Cherry St LRT to Sumach Station (Relief Line) with an underground platform may be one way to help with this.

Fair enough. I guess if 60% of the riders go to Union, and the remaining 40% go up Cherry St and transfer to the Relief line, then the volume will be manageable.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Waterfront Toronto has since 2004 manta "Transit First"

so how does that explain that the streetcars on the 509 and 510 have to slow down on Queens Quya? What they need to do is put a proper barrier between them and not just trees and change in pavement style that does nothing.

 

[drum118]

so how does that explain that the streetcars on the 509 and 510 have to slow down on Queens Quya? What they need to do is put a proper barrier between them and not just trees and change in pavement style that does nothing.

Very simple: EMS/fire department/traffic enginers and lack of true priority signals. This includes moving to a bar signals for transit.

TTC wanted a barrier between the tracks and the bike path, but over rule by everyone including the designers (West 8). I don't see the need for barriers at all, other than intersections.

You don't find barriers like you want on other systems that have simpler design, including RR.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

You don't find barriers like you want on other systems that have simpler design, including RR.

they don't usually build a sidewalk next to a Rail Road though especially one that is heavily used as the Streetcar right of way. Whenever I'm on it the drivers have to almost constantly ring the bell or use the horn at every pedestrian crossing because pedestrians cross the tracks and wait on the other side for the light to change. Pedestrians have no respect for the streetcar track at all, they don't see it as being a railroad which they should be.

 

[DSC]

they don't usually build a sidewalk next to a Rail Road though especially on that is heavily used as the Streetcar right of way. Whenever I'm on it the drivers have to almost consatently rin te bell or use the horn at every pedestrin crossing beces pedestrians cross the tracks and wait on the other side for the light to change. Pedstrians have no respect for the stretcar track at all, they don't see it as being a railrad which they should be.

Time to go back to proof-reading school! Your posts are not only often inaccurate but also very hard to decipher. I am on the verge of "Ignoring" you, should you care.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Time to go back to proof-reading school! Your posts are not only often inaccurate but also very hard to decipher. I am on the verge of "Ignoring" you, should you care.

fixed if you care sorry I'm not perfect at spelling and grammar like you seem to be. There are many others that write posts that are just as bad yet no one seems to want to say the same things to them.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Nobody writes as poorly as you, don't delude yourself.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Nobody writes as poorly as you, don't delude yourself.

I must be reading different posts then you then. I frequently see people post a whole paragraph that is a run on sentence.

 

[PinkLucy]

We're getting off-topic here.

 

[Jeff Morgan]

Will the Google announcement have any effect on the priority of the QQE buildout? I read that the streetcars were mentioned numerous times in their proposal.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Will the Google announcement have any effect on the priority of the QQE buildout? I read that the streetcars were mentioned numerous times in their proposal.

The city needs to get its act together - and I hope this will be one incentive to get things done.

AoD