News   Oct 11, 2019
 1.1K     0 
News   Oct 11, 2019
 1.2K     9 
News   Oct 11, 2019
 1.6K     0 

Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

How should Toronto connect the East and West arms of the planned waterfront transit with downtown?

  • Expand the existing Union loop

    Votes: 124 74.3%
  • Build a Western terminus

    Votes: 8 4.8%
  • Route service along Queen's Quay with pedestrian/cycle/bus connection to Union

    Votes: 19 11.4%
  • Connect using existing Queen's Quay/Union Loop and via King Street

    Votes: 4 2.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 12 7.2%

  • Total voters
    167

drum118

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
14,201
Reaction score
6,598
Location
Mississauga, where cars rule city growth
This study and direction to City Council will cover the area on the Waterfront from Woodbine Ave to the east and Long Branch to the west. Everything and routes are on the table, going back to the 90's

A Parklawn Transportation Study is underway and not part of this study at this time

A report is to go to the City Executive Committee on June 28 and council in July as where to go next as well funding.
 

drum118

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
14,201
Reaction score
6,598
Location
Mississauga, where cars rule city growth
There is an study underway that could effect this study. It covers the area from the QEW to Dundas, Etobicoke Creek to 427

Open House and Community Meeting #3
Date: May 25, 2016 Time: 6:30pm to 9:00pm
Place: Etobicoke Civic Centre,
399 The West Mall (Council Chamber)
 

drum118

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
14,201
Reaction score
6,598
Location
Mississauga, where cars rule city growth
Just received the official change for May 24 meeting as well a 2nd one.

There will be a number of meetings in the coming weeks, right across the Waterfront, that is broken down to 4 areas.

Area 1
Long Branch Loop-Humber River

Area 2
Humber River-Strachan Ave

Area 3
Strachan Ave-Parliament St

Area 4
Parliament St-Woodbine Ave

May 24 is now May 25

May 26
John English Junior Middle Public School
95 Mimico Ave,
Toronto, ON M8V 1R4
(6:00 - 8:30pm)
 

DSC

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
10,340
Reaction score
5,093
Location
St Lawrence Market Area
There is an study underway that could effect this study. It covers the area from the QEW to Dundas, Etobicoke Creek to 427

Open House and Community Meeting #3
Date: May 25, 2016 Time: 6:30pm to 9:00pm
Place: Etobicoke Civic Centre,
399 The West Mall (Council Chamber)
As the TTC is a network (as are roads) almost any transportation project has some effect on others. I have no problem with the Waterfront being looked at all together but fear that by making the study area larger and larger we will actually never finish studying and thus never start building. (Oh, wait a second, that is what has been going on here for the last 40 years!) Though I agree that most people seem to want to see a proper Queens Quay East LRT, and generally approve of studying before building I do worry that we will not get to the building part.
 

drum118

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
14,201
Reaction score
6,598
Location
Mississauga, where cars rule city growth
As the TTC is a network (as are roads) almost any transportation project has some effect on others. I have no problem with the Waterfront being looked at all together but fear that by making the study area larger and larger we will actually never finish studying and thus never start building. (Oh, wait a second, that is what has been going on here for the last 40 years!) Though I agree that most people seem to want to see a proper Queens Quay East LRT, and generally approve of studying before building I do worry that we will not get to the building part.
I am not in the position of saying to much at this time, until the first meeting, but Transit on the Waterfront is A High Priority at this time.

As for the Sherway study, transit seems missing in action at this time and know nothing about it.

Since TTC has the Queensway LRT on their books for decades, it should be part of the Waterfront Reset study. Considering the amount of development underway now and plan, time to look at this LRT line again as an interline route.

I do know under the Mississauga Dundas Study, there were calls for an LRT on the Queensway, but it would be good for express service connecting to Hurnontario LRT, but can't connect to TTC since they will be different gauge in the first place.
 
Last edited:

ksun

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 14, 2013
Messages
1,805
Reaction score
238
O Great....another STUDY...... all talk and no action continuously landing back at square one. Why are politicians always having a hard on for studies.....cant they make a decision already? This has been a multi decade issue that pretty much illustrates how our local government left our city to decay
Doing more studies actually is in the best interest of politicians. It shows they have visions, are doing something and bring your hope, however, without actually constructing anything, there is no risk and real responsibility and they don't have to worry about how to finance the projects either. Politicians who care more about their career than the city will always do far more talk than building because it is how the system works - they only need to think short term. Why is it surprising to you.
 

ksun

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 14, 2013
Messages
1,805
Reaction score
238
They would never duplicate a streetcar/LRT if they are the same thing!
Streetcars and LRTs can pretty much convert into each other, and be identical.

TTC is slowly defacto progressing some streetcar routes closer to LRT behavior:

- New streetcars, that includes LRT pantograph operation mode.
- Dedicated right of ways (Spadina, St. Clair, future King, parts of QQ)

Remaining problems upgrading TTC streetcars to true LRT rapid transit performance

- Proper traffic signal priority system (instant green on LRVs)
- Efficient stop spacing, "far side platform" technique, etc.
- Tunnel in appropriate hard-to-solve parts

Fix that, and both Spadina/StClair can be just as fast as the downtown part of the TTC subway, finally being true TTC LRTs with the sole exception of the non-standard gauge and single-direction vehicles.
Completely agree.
I have said many times that our streetcar system can well function like a semi-rapid transit system, it is ourselves who refuse to allow it to happen. The new streetcars will solve part of the capacity problems already. On busy routes such as King and Queen, you only have to make it ROW and cut 1/3 of the stops, plus better signaling system, and voila, you have a functioning LRT people will not hate to ride.

However, we keep worrying about cars who just HAVE to run on King/Queen when there are obviously better alternatives, and keep nagging that it is "local service" (which doesn't seem to exist anywhere else in the world) so stopping every 150 meters is absolutely essential. Then we end up with an expensive system riders use because they have no option (therefore the high ridership stats we are so proud of), not because they work well.
 

Migos

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
364
Reaction score
34
Completely agree.
I have said many times that our streetcar system can well function like a semi-rapid transit system, it is ourselves who refuse to allow it to happen. The new streetcars will solve part of the capacity problems already. On busy routes such as King and Queen, you only have to make it ROW and cut 1/3 of the stops, plus better signaling system, and voila, you have a functioning LRT people will not hate to ride.

However, we keep worrying about cars who just HAVE to run on King/Queen when there are obviously better alternatives, and keep nagging that it is "local service" (which doesn't seem to exist anywhere else in the world) so stopping every 150 meters is absolutely essential. Then we end up with an expensive system riders use because they have no option (therefore the high ridership stats we are so proud of), not because they work well.
Agree. At least one of King or Queen should be ROW. There are also FAR too many stops. Getting the new streetcars online on the busy routes should alleviate some of the crowding that makes the ride unbearable.

Toronto seems opposed to common-sense, fast solutions and instead chases white elephants like a DRL that runs west of Yonge. It's a great solution, but realistically it wouldn't be operational for 15+ years. We need solutions now because the city is already gridlocked and getting worse due to huge immigration levels and development.
 

ksun

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 14, 2013
Messages
1,805
Reaction score
238
15 years? Try 30. The Crosstown takes 11 years just to construct, assuming no further delay, and the DRL is nowhere near a concrete plan so far and there is no funding. Toronto would be lucky to have it by 2040, so as important as it is, this project is not going to solve our immediate transit woes.

It really costs very little to provide ROW and cut stops for 504/501, as long as our politicians are willing to take some political pressure (from suburban drivers) and let common sense prevail. It will make a massive difference in a matter of months, instead of decades, yet we refuse to do just that. Even in dense European cities from Paris to Riga, the normal spacing for buses/trams (yes, "local service" we are obsessed with) is 400 meters, yet TTC insists it needs to be under 200 meters. With ROW and fewer stops, the vehicles can return faster and headways can be shortened as well (so you don't have to wait 17 minutes for a damn streetcar). We are just squander the resources we have and expect to build grand project our grandchildren might not be able to see for the problems we have today.
 

drum118

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
14,201
Reaction score
6,598
Location
Mississauga, where cars rule city growth
Are the materials being presented at the meeting tonight going to be available online?
Check Waterfront Toronto Tomorrow and they will be up for both the presentation and board material.
 
Top